Is shunning biblical?

[LovingChild]

Paul writes in 1. Corinthians5:11,13

"But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviled, or a drunkard, or a swindler - not even to eat with such a one....
Remove the wicked man from among yourselves."

Being shunned myself from Jehovah's Witnesses because I doubted their teachings after serious research, I still think that "removing the wicked" from a congregation might be necessary if that person becomes dangerous (e.g. child abusers). But does this inspired rule of the bible also apply to persons who are truly seeking the truth and therefore doubt specific man made teachings ?

To understand the shunning I am talking about, you might want to watch this brief video:

AAWA Exposing Watchtower Truths: SHUNNING - YouTube

I would appreciate your opinions, since they could help to find a new understanding for life for those who endure the shunning.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Hi, loving child. No I don't think that situation is Biblical. It ignores verse 6 (I Cor 5:6) "Your boasting is not good." You doubted a teaching. They boasted by making themselves the adjudicators of truth.

Additionally, a private sin is not something that needs to be addressed by the entire assembly. If they don't know about it, then they don't need to 'Shun' you. Two or three witnesses are required to point out something serious.

In the case of child abuse I would bypass this whole process, because you may not be able to get two or three witnesses and shunning is not going to keep pedophiles from joining. Instead let the authorities investigate for the child's protection. Help in the investigation. When things become clear, then you can work on how to restore the offender.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I think this is one of those issues where the Bible contradicts itself. Yes, those verses in the OP are in the Bible, but so are these:

James 5:20:

Let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

Matthew 18:15-15:

“If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

Keep in mind that this is a quote from Jesus, who associated with tax collectors.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Just thought I should add: regardless of what's in the Bible, you have a responsibility to protect children and other vulnerable people from abuse. I would say that if actual abuse has been committed (i.e. it's not just a matter of worrying that abuse will happen in future), then you have a responsibility to report the abuse to the authorities and to make sure that the victim gets appropriate care.

 

[Union jack]

Paul writes in 1. Corinthians5:11,13

"But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviled, or a drunkard, or a swindler - not even to eat with such a one....
Remove the wicked man from among yourselves."

This teaching is reflected in the Buddhist texts and supports the dharmic theory of an expanding universe reflecting our tendency to spin off in ever smaller sectarian groups.

Sadly this can leave the excommunicated individual in a social vacuum unalleviated by the sight of galaxies spinning off into space.

Re: Root Tantric Vow; boycotting the malevolent who reject transformation.

Incidentally, this practice may be reflected in a quote in Mein Kampf "ruthless determination to prune away all excrescences which are incapable of being improved"

 

[dawny0826]

I think we should think of context as in how we are applying biblical scripture to our lives.

The Christian should be striving to be as Christ like as possible. Christ dined and hung out with the "least of these". He had no problem hanging with the whores, the thieves, the "unsavory" characters.

How can we reach those that need Christ the most if we neglect them?

Shunning in my opinion, references turning your back on those who are negatively influencing your faith walk. If you are being separated from God in your walk because of the company that you keep, "shunning" those negative influences is what's in your best interest for your own faith walk.

Yet, for someone else who is strong in their faith, their very influence on the same people, just through loving acts of kindness may impact their lives in more ways than can be imagined.

 

[LovingChild]

Hi, loving child. No I don't think that situation is Biblical. It ignores verse 6 (I Cor 5:6) "Your boasting is not good." You doubted a teaching. They boasted by making themselves the adjudicators of truth.

Additionally, a private sin is not something that needs to be addressed by the entire assembly. If they don't know about it, then they don't need to 'Shun' you. Two or three witnesses are required to point out something serious.

In the case of child abuse I would bypass this whole process, because you may not be able to get two or three witnesses and shunning is not going to keep pedophiles from joining. Instead let the authorities investigate for the child's protection. Help in the investigation. When things become clear, then you can work on how to restore the offender.

Hi, dear Brickjectivity,

thank you for your thoughtful reply. Especially I am thankful because I know that it is not a theme that is of interest for most readers, as shunning is not very common anymore.

Regarding your reasoning, I agree in every point you wrote.

Maybe I should add that -like in Amish communities- the rigorous neglecting of the disfellowshipped members are meant to bring those back to the community by making them feel ashamed and making them feel so much alone that they willingly return and obey the rules in fear to be shunned again.

Again, thank you for your supporting thoughts.

Love, LovingChild

 

[LovingChild]

I think this is one of those issues where the Bible contradicts itself. Yes, those verses in the OP are in the Bible, but so are these:

James 5:20:


Matthew 18:15-15:

Keep in mind that this is a quote from Jesus, who associated with tax collectors.

Hi, dear 9-10ths_Penguin,
thank you for your reply.

In my opinion the bible does not contradict itself. Jesus Himself spoke to the outcast people and knew that tax collectors and prostitutes needed to change their ways. But, He lived in the world without being contaminated by it!
So like Him we are to be in the world, but not of the world as the bible tells Christians (John17:16). To illustrate: it is good for a ship to be in the sea, but bad when the sea gets into the ship.

So why then did Paul ask the Corinthian congregation to "remove the wicked man from among yourselves"? Well, in order not to damage the other members by the man's wickedness. The question here is for me, is it wicked to search for the truth?

LovingChild

 

[LovingChild]

Just thought I should add: regardless of what's in the Bible, you have a responsibility to protect children and other vulnerable people from abuse. I would say that if actual abuse has been committed (i.e. it's not just a matter of worrying that abuse will happen in future), then you have a responsibility to report the abuse to the authorities and to make sure that the victim gets appropriate care.

Hi again,
thank you for that important statement. Yes, it is essential to protect vulnerable people from abuse. That is why I am an Advocate for Awareness of Watchtower Abuses (AAWA is our newly formed organization).
We begin with increasing awareness of the problem of shunning and will fight legally against the many other abuses that take place in the Watchtower Organization. Some of us have to work underground, because we know that we are a threat for the JW Governing Body.
Here is our starting introduction, but we are already on social network and other media. The next months will show several other press releases. Some of us already were interviewed in TV.

AAWA TAKES ON THE WATCHTOWER!!!!! (MIRRORED) - YouTube

LovingChild

 

[LovingChild]

This teaching is reflected in the Buddhist texts and supports the dharmic theory of an expanding universe reflecting our tendency to spin off in ever smaller sectarian groups.

Sadly this can leave the excommunicated individual in a social vacuum unalleviated by the sight of galaxies spinning off into space.

Re: Root Tantric Vow; boycotting the malevolent who reject transformation.

Incidentally, this practice may be reflected in a quote in Mein Kampf "ruthless determination to prune away all excrescences which are incapable of being improved"

Hi Union jack, thank you for your reply.

How interesting that the shunning is reflected in Buddhist texts.
I would never have known this. Thank you for sharing.

Love, LovingChild

 

[LovingChild]

I think we should think of context as in how we are applying biblical scripture to our lives.

The Christian should be striving to be as Christ like as possible. Christ dined and hung out with the "least of these". He had no problem hanging with the whores, the thieves, the "unsavory" characters.

How can we reach those that need Christ the most if we neglect them?

Shunning in my opinion, references turning your back on those who are negatively influencing your faith walk. If you are being separated from God in your walk because of the company that you keep, "shunning" those negative influences is what's in your best interest for your own faith walk.

Yet, for someone else who is strong in their faith, their very influence on the same people, just through loving acts of kindness may impact their lives in more ways than can be imagined.

Hello, dear dawny,

thank you for your great reply!
In essence you already said everything I was thinking of.

And yes, I think that loving acts of kindness together (!) with true teachings can affect people to choose the right way. But both should definitely come together.

Love, LovingChild

 

[Union jack]

I believe the swastika was derived from the Hindus. Philosophically maybe Hitler's expression of the idea was concise in that reformation can occur.