Is the belief "There are no absolute truths", an absolute truth?

[God is love]

In other words those who believe there aren't any absolute truths, would have to believe that notion was an absolute, undisbutable truth.

I thought some skeptics of those who believe their religeon has absolute truths, might think it is worth debating.

Again, I leave it to you to debate

 

[Darkdale]

No, it's not. It is simply a negation of a proposition. It is stating only that there is neither evidence nor reason to believe in absolute truths. If asked whether or not that statement is absolutely true, I'm sure they'd say, "what the hell kind of question is that? We just said that there was no absolute truth".

 

[Pah]

No, it's not. It is simply a negation of a proposition. It is stating only that there is neither evidence nor reason to believe in absolute truths. If asked whether or not that statement is absolutely true, I'm sure they'd say, "what the hell kind of question is that? We just said that there was no absolute truth".

It is proper to say there are absolutely no absolutes because "absolutely" is an adjective that describes an attribute having the characteristics of "absolute" which doen't exist. It is as easy to say, "there goes a godly man", and yet not acknowledge the existence of God.

To be grammatically and factually correct, your question should be "Is the belief "There are no absolute truths", absolutely true"?

 

[Steve]

If someone makes the statement "There are no absoulutes" and belives the statement to be true then it is a contridiction.

 

[Yerda]

If someone makes the statement "There are no absoulutes" and belives the statement to be true then it is a contridiction.

I don't see why.

 

[Pah]

If someone makes the statement "There are no absoulutes" and belives the statement to be true then it is a contridiction.

Actually, a belief denies absolutes.

 

[Steve]

I don't see why.

Because if they belive their statement is true then they dont really belive there are no absolutes.

Actually, a belief denies absolutes.

How so?
Beliving somthing to be true but not being sure dosnt mean that it isnt absolutly true.
Our beliefs dont change objective reality. If something is true it is true, it dosnt matter if you belive it or not.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

In other words those who believe there aren't any absolute truths, would have to believe that notion was an absolute, undisbutable truth.

And your point?

 

[ChrisP]

Life is a paradox. It's hardly shocking that truth has one too.

 

[Steve]

Life is a paradox.

Is that true?
Besides what does that actually mean?

It's hardly shocking that truth has one too.

Who here has said truth has a paradox?
The statement "There are no absolute truths" simply denies objective truth.

Have you ever taken a maths test? If there are no absolute truths why did you bother?

 

[Pah]

....?
Beliving somthing to be true but not being sure dosnt mean that it isnt absolutly true.
Our beliefs dont change objective reality. If something is true it is true, it dosnt matter if you belive it or not.

What is true is nor neccessarily absolute nor even universal. Truth can be determined by epistemological standards.

How is your truth determined, Steve?

 

[Steve]

What is true is nor neccessarily absolute nor even universal.

It is universally and absolutly true that 5+5=10.
The statement in question rules out any absolutes, only one needs to be shown to prove it false.

Truth can be determined by epistemological standards.

Ideas and theories can be determined by epistemological standards. These ideas may reflect the truth but they dont determine what the truth is. It can be a good way to figure out what the truth is but it dosnt change reality.

How is your truth determined, Steve?

I dont have my own truth, that is the point. I have what i regard and believe as true but like i said befor "Our beliefs dont change objective reality. If something is true it is true, it dosnt matter if you belive it or not."

I believe what i believe from what i see around me and what i think is the most likely and logical conclusion. This does not mean that i determine truth though, its how i try and figure out what is true.

Lets suppose me and you have an argument over how many toes you have, for some reason i believe you have 33 and you insist you only have 10. Is it ok for me to say well for me the truth is you have 33 and the truth for you is you have 10, even though its obvious that the reality, fact, objective truth is we both cant be right and in this case you could even prove me wrong simply by showing the fact of the matter.

The statement boils down to the denial of the possibility of facts or objective reality alltogether. However this is absurd and undermines the purpose of any debate/discussion anywhere about anything.

 

[Pah]

It is universally and absolutly true that 5+5=10.
The statement in question rules out any absolutes, only one needs to be shown to prove it false.

Nope! It is false in many numbering sytems not based on 10.

Ideas and theories can be determined by epistemological standards.

Nope again. The truth of ideas and not neccessarily theories are determinined by the standards in epistemology.Truth is best determined by a comparision to reality - not the other way around.

I dont have my own truth, that is the point. I have what i regard and believe as true but like i said befor "Our beliefs dont change objective reality. If something is true it is true, it dosnt matter if you belive it or not."

You have not shown, by any standard, how you determine truth.

I believe what i believe from what i see around me and what i think is the most likely and logical conclusion.

So you haven't yet tested anything by a standard, have you! You just "leap" to a conclusion. :tsk:

This does not mean that i determine truth though, its how i try and figure out what is true.

That sounds like a hypothesis. You've missed it again.

Lets suppose me and you have an argument over how many toes you have, for some reason i believe you have 33 and you insist you only have 10. Is it ok for me to say well for me the truth is you have 33 and the truth for you is you have 10, even though its obvious that the reality, fact, objective truth is we both cant be right and in this case you could even prove me wrong simply by showing the fact of the matter.

You're getting closer :clap but we both could be wrong.

The statement boils down to the denial of the possibility of facts or objective reality alltogether. However this is absurd and undermines the purpose of any debate/discussion anywhere about anything.

You haven't shown how anything is absurd with the possible exception of your conveyed understanding of epistemology.

 

[Steve]

Nope! It is false in many numbering sytems not based on 10.

Pah obviously im refering to our number system based on 10. Ill refine my statement.
In our numbersystem which is based on 10 It is universally and absolutly true that 5+5=10.
That is an absolute which is true and based on reality therefor the statement is false - simple.

You're getting closer :clap but we both could be wrong.

So are you trying to tell me that there is no such thing as a fact?
Objective Reality is what it is regardless of our perception of it.

 

[ALifetimeToWaitFor...]

The search for truth in inherentyl unreligious. It is logicaly going from a problem to an answer. So an altruism, or undeniable truth, would simply be something like gravity. A faith therefore negates the previous statement only allowing for speculation.

 

[michel]

In other words those who believe there aren't any absolute truths, would have to believe that notion was an absolute, undisbutable truth.

Is the belief that there are no absolute truths, and absolute truth ?

I see most of you are replying;- no.

So, from that, I assume those of you who do not believe in there being any absolute truths do not rule out the possibility of absolute truths ?

Isn't that a contradiction in terms ?

 

[Pah]

Pah obviously im refering to our number system based on 10. Ill refine my statement.
In our numbersystem which is based on 10 It is universally and absolutly true that 5+5=10.
That is an absolute which is true and based on reality therefor the statement is false - simple.

You are pleading a special case now. But I'm not surprised. You love to make assumptions about "reality".

You say "our number system" ignoring that you and I right now are using a number system not based on 10. Tell me the "absloute truth" of 1 +9. Is it 10?, A?, or an impossible statement? And these are what we use right now. Which one is fact? Are they all facts? As an additional challange, tell me what "FFFFFF" is - you've been using it too. (I generally don't).

You used "absolutely" correctly but not "absolute" and I have no idea what statement you think is false.

So are you trying to tell me that there is no such thing as a fact?
Objective Reality is what it is regardless of our perception of it.

I don't think I've said there is no such thing as fact. It appears you are just leaping to a conclusion again.

Reality, my friend, IS what we can percive and measure.

So tell ya what - since this seems to be a bit difficult for you, perhaps you'd like to take a stab at defining "absolute".

 

[Steve]

You are pleading a special case now. But I'm not surprised. You love to make assumptions about "reality".

Asumptions about reality?

You say "our number system" ignoring that you and I right now are using a number system not based on 10. Tell me the "absloute truth" of 1 +9. Is it 10?, A?, or an impossible statement?

To be honest im not sure what your getting at?
If i have 9 apples and then get 1 more how many do i now have? 10 apples. Thats the truth of it.

And these are what we use right now. Which one is fact? Are they all facts? As an additional challange, tell me what "FFFFFF" is - you've been using it too. (I generally don't).

huh?

I don't think I've said there is no such thing as fact. It appears you are just leaping to a conclusion again.

If you deny absolute truth then what is a fact? Something that can be true to me but not to you? No - because then its not factual, based on objective reality.

 

[Darkdale]

The question itself kind of misses the point... it's a weakness in language I think, which is what Pah is pointing out.

Kind of like, "This statement is false". Logic has a hard time dealing with the truth value of certain kinds of statements. It's a problem in language, as I understand it, and not so much in reasoning.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

There is no absolute truth.
no "truth, whole truth, nothing but the truth"
no universal truth.
no undisputed truth.
The best we can say, is that we believe some thing to be true.

Terry_____________________
Amen! Truly I say to you: Gather in my name. I am with you.