McBell
Unbound
He has a hard enough time with it in English.....
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Is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints 'Christian'.
- Thread starter Sonny
- Start date
Oh, I see. We get to choose which things are commandments and which are merely suggestions.That's going to make life a whole lot easier from here on out.
Actually it makes it harder. Now you have to determine if what is said is mandatory. The easy things is to says they are all mandatory. Do you really think God considers wearing a piece of clothing with mixed fabric a sin.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
And I accept it because I see no such contradictions. I see two books that both testify that Jesus Christ loved us so much that He was willing to take upon Himself our sins and die so that we might live again and be reconciled to our Father in Heaven. As far as I'm concerned, the more witnesses we have that Jesus Christ is our Savior, the better.
You're right. It is. And even though the KJV is the version we typically use, I have seen our General Authorities use other versions when the meaning is more clear. Personally, I use two or three different versions, particularly when the KJV's meaning is unclear to me.
Not necessary. The teams who do Bible translation are experts in the languages and I can depend on their expertise.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Well, He said He did. And I don't believe it had anything to do with dry cleaning, either. How do you personally decide when a law is mandatory and when it's not?
It is not the similarities that arr the problem, it is the differences.
Good for you and good for them. The KJ is not a bad translation, it just is not the best. If I am going to study God's word, I want the most accurate one available.
Which teams do you trust to be infallible in their effort to do this? There are varying translations.
God didn't change His mind. Circumstances made the sacrificial system obsolete. However the main thing that makes sacrifices unnecessary is the cross. Jesus paid the price for all of man's sins.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
I believe in acknowledging the differences but not in exaggerating them.
If you just read what is r, it is not exaggeration.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Huh?
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
If you want to get right down to it, there are contradictions within each of the two Testaments (contradictions I suspect Omega2xx simply turns a blind eye to)..
In Matthew 12:30, Jesus says, "He that is not with me is against me." That is completely opposite to what He says in Luke 9:50 -- "He that is not against us is for us."
There are actually hundreds of such examples. Now before anyone accuses me of finding fault with the Bible, I don't believe any of these "supposed" contradictions are at all significant. When understood in context, I think examples of this sort can be explained. Other contradictions can be explained as being told from the perspective of different people. The important thing is that the scriptures teach the gospel of Jesus Christ, which I believe they do.
McBell
Unbound
Spin it however you like.
It still boils down to god changing his mind.
McBell
Unbound
*cries*
I was going to ask which of the Gospels he rejects.
But...
But...
You spoiled it for me...
***cries louder***
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Sorry. It seems as if sometimes my sole purpose in life is to make people cry.
DeepShadow
White Crow
And if they aren't part of the standard works...? Go on, I said it was a circular argument. Feel free to complete the other half of the circle any time.
Because my point was that they were NEVER part of the standard works. To refute that, all you need to do is cite ONE (1) source other than the JoD that says they were part of the standard works.
To say they have rejected founding doctrines, first you have to show that these were doctrines. You have not done so.
There's that word again. You have not demonstrated that the JoD was a source of doctrine. W
Sure, but not doctrines.
It's not that hard to understand: they wanted to have the sermons overseas. They were sermons, not statements of doctrine. They didn't need the sermons to be statements of doctrine because statements of doctrine already existed on both continents: the standard works. It's like asking why we have "My Utmost for His Highest" when we already have the Bible. One is a set of sermons, the other is a statement of doctrine. Treating the sermons like they are statements of doctrine will lead to the exact same kind of foolishness as you are trying to foist on us.
Non-doctrinal sermons =/= pointless
1) it was important to get the sermons printed...because they had value as sermons. You're the one saying anything that isn't a statement of doctrine is "pointless."
2) They weren't the most sacred books of the LDS church, because that position was already occupied.
3) They were already accurately printing the most sacred books of the LDS chuch: the Standard Works. Of which the JoD is not.
I'll let everyone else here decide what to believe here. Judging from the replies, they are figuring it out just fine.
God is not allowed to direct men to correct the mistakes that other men made when implementing His vision?
"The LORD is extending the Saints' understanding,
Restoring their judges and all as at first!
The knowledge and power of God are expanding
The veil o'er the earth is beginning to burst!"
I thank God that he continually improves His work, expanding upon it as far as we are able to sustain with our limited understanding. And as our understanding extends through His grace, he will continue to expand our knowledge of Him to greater and greater lengths. And that means removing flaws, correcting misunderstandings, clarifying, refining, expounding upon a LIVING Gospel, written in the hearts of His followers. My testimony is in a living God who speaks to me right now, this instant, and whose words change like the words of a radio station "change" as we tune in to it.
It's not God's shortcomings we're talking about here.
But, since you don't like the JoDs I'll use some other 'LDS church-printed' books also. Does that make you feel better?
Use whatever books you like, but does any of them state the JoD was part of the Standard Works? Or are we just gonna drop that silliness?
Lack of understanding along with preconceived ideas always leads to the wrong conclusions.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Congratulations. I couldn't have expressed it better myself, and you couldn't have been a better example.
Sonny
Active Member
Lately, I have been very busy so I haven't had time to reply to anyone. I will. But first I want to post more reasons why I believe the Mormon church is not a Christian church.
The Mormon church teaches/believes in reincarnation. I know that will raise some ire in the LDS here but, nonetheless, they do. Let me post why I believe that.
The LDS church teaches that in order to become a God a man must first be a man, live, die then get Exalted (gain Godhood status). LDS believe that we are constantly progressing throughout eternity. It takes time, maybe eons, to progress from a man to a God (Eternal Progression). God was once a man and progressed, eventually, to become a God.
Jesus, however, regressed (reincarnated). The LDS church teaches that Jesus (who is the OT God) "created ALL things"* (this major doctrine is so pervasive in LDS theology that it doesn't require any references- the D&Cs are full of this teaching/doctrine). Jesus created everything before there was anything. That means, to the LDS church/members, that Jesus had already lived on some planet somewhere as a man (that could not possibly have existed IF Jesus created 'all things'), had lived a righteous life- grew up, worked, probably married and had children on that planet, died and was Exalted to Godhood.
After becoming a God Jesus was chosen by God, the Father or, by a group of other Gods at a 'Council in Heaven'** to become the Savior of this world, our Earth. Jesus then became a man again and came to our earth*** where He lived, died and was resurrected again and became a God again- of both Testaments this time.
If I have misstated or misunderstood LDS theology I ask an LDS to correct me using LDS references. Thanks.
Christianity does not teach that men can become Gods or that God was ever a man. It teaches that Jesus is the only God who decided long ago, probably before He had created anything, that He would appear as Three separate and distinct Persons of the Godhead but all three are the same one God. Each Person has His own individual role to fulfill in the Plan of Salvation. Christianity and Mormonism differ greatly on who and what God is.
* The word 'All' is an inclusive word. It means everything that was, is or ever will be 'Created'. But the LDS church also teaches that Jesus has a dad who has a dad, ad infinitum backwards in time, making it absolutely impossible for one of these two major doctrines to be true (a real contradiction in terminology). And, the LDS church also teaches that JS did more than Jesus. So, JS had to have 'created' something that Jesus did not create. We'll get to these later.).
** It's very difficult to know for sure who makes these types of decisions- compare Moses 2&3 to Abraham 4&5)
*** Earth is only one of the 'Worlds without numbers' which has life that JS, BY, and other LDS leaders taught- Moses 1:33, The Way to Perfection (W2P) 24-27, 151, etc)
The Mormon church teaches/believes in reincarnation. I know that will raise some ire in the LDS here but, nonetheless, they do. Let me post why I believe that.
The LDS church teaches that in order to become a God a man must first be a man, live, die then get Exalted (gain Godhood status). LDS believe that we are constantly progressing throughout eternity. It takes time, maybe eons, to progress from a man to a God (Eternal Progression). God was once a man and progressed, eventually, to become a God.
Jesus, however, regressed (reincarnated). The LDS church teaches that Jesus (who is the OT God) "created ALL things"* (this major doctrine is so pervasive in LDS theology that it doesn't require any references- the D&Cs are full of this teaching/doctrine). Jesus created everything before there was anything. That means, to the LDS church/members, that Jesus had already lived on some planet somewhere as a man (that could not possibly have existed IF Jesus created 'all things'), had lived a righteous life- grew up, worked, probably married and had children on that planet, died and was Exalted to Godhood.
After becoming a God Jesus was chosen by God, the Father or, by a group of other Gods at a 'Council in Heaven'** to become the Savior of this world, our Earth. Jesus then became a man again and came to our earth*** where He lived, died and was resurrected again and became a God again- of both Testaments this time.
If I have misstated or misunderstood LDS theology I ask an LDS to correct me using LDS references. Thanks.
Christianity does not teach that men can become Gods or that God was ever a man. It teaches that Jesus is the only God who decided long ago, probably before He had created anything, that He would appear as Three separate and distinct Persons of the Godhead but all three are the same one God. Each Person has His own individual role to fulfill in the Plan of Salvation. Christianity and Mormonism differ greatly on who and what God is.
* The word 'All' is an inclusive word. It means everything that was, is or ever will be 'Created'. But the LDS church also teaches that Jesus has a dad who has a dad, ad infinitum backwards in time, making it absolutely impossible for one of these two major doctrines to be true (a real contradiction in terminology). And, the LDS church also teaches that JS did more than Jesus. So, JS had to have 'created' something that Jesus did not create. We'll get to these later.).
** It's very difficult to know for sure who makes these types of decisions- compare Moses 2&3 to Abraham 4&5)
*** Earth is only one of the 'Worlds without numbers' which has life that JS, BY, and other LDS leaders taught- Moses 1:33, The Way to Perfection (W2P) 24-27, 151, etc)