Is the God of the OT and the NT the same God?

[QuestioningMind]

No you can't because since you left Jesus you were never a true Christian and you didn't have faith or Jesus would have clarified all the contradictions for you.

Gee, it would be nice if someone who WAS a 'true Christian' and DID have faith would pass along the clarification they now have of these contradictions. I mean, the best way I know of to establish my understanding of something is to explain it to someone else. Chances are if I can't explain it to someone else, then I really don't have a true understanding.

If YOU are a 'true Christian' and have faith, then please DO enlighten us as to how all of the contradictions can be clarified.

 

[Rival]

Gee, it would be nice if someone who WAS a 'true Christian' and DID have faith would pass along the clarification they now have of these contradictions. I mean, the best way I know of to establish my understanding of something is to explain it to someone else. Chances are if I can't explain it to someone else, then I really don't have a true understanding.

If YOU are a 'true Christian' and have faith, then please DO enlighten us as to how all of the contradictions can be clarified.

 

[QuestioningMind]

Eh... and how exactly does this quote clarify the contradictions between the God of the OT and the God of the NT?

 

[pearl]

Yes Jesus was a Jew who wanted to reform Judaism.It was Paul who created what is now called Xianity.

You make a good point that Jesus had no intention of starting a new church or religion. But as for Paul, he may be credited with the spread of Christianity to the Gentiles, but initially he was a persecutor of Christians, until his conversion.

 

[Rival]

Eh... and how exactly does this quote clarify the contradictions between the God of the OT and the God of the NT?

Tumah is a Charedi. You addressed him as if he is a Christian.

 

[Seven headed beast]

They absolutely are the same individual but what you are seeing is the much more mature and understanding individual.

The one exception is in the Revelation. This is where the bible got screwed up because the council of Nicea lost track of who was where. In the first chapter of the Revelation of John of Patmos, they mistakenly placed the Old Man in the wrong role. They placed the creature of light in the creature of darks role.

The mystery of Revelation is a mystery because the council had no idea what the seven stars and "lampstands" were so they made something up. In reality, if the creature of dark was in the right role, the seven stars and seven lampstands are talismans and sigils, which are the tools of a sorcerer.

The council of elders-: where the hell is the Old Man going to find one elder, let alone twenty four of them.

The rape of Jezebel - pull-ease!

Extorting others to purchase gold from Him! Really?

In Revelation 12 they give Him an illegitimate child.

By the reversing of the CoL and the CoD, it actually reverses the entire bible. The entirety of the main tenet of christiandom is reversed.

Also, in Revelation 13, He is the personification of the red dragon, as the bible was framed from ancient texts that were of Babylonian and Sumerian origin, and the supreme being in both cultures was represented as a dragon. Marduk was the Babylonian representatation and I do not rightly recall the Sumerian god, but the council had already lost understanding at this point.

The deal is that the seven headed beast is the son of God, and the red dragon "gives the beast his power and his seat" is metaphor for "divine right", which is the Old Man.

The creature of dark is not the Antichrist nor is it Satan. When you understand that the bible has no message of good hope, it is entirely an eschatological prophetic foretelling that had already come to pass thrice on this planet and there are indications and evidences that it has challenged before on at least one other.

The council did not understand this or did not care about the notion of truth, it didn't fit into their falsehoods. The creature of dark changes every time it comes to pass. Just like the Melchizedekk changes.

The individual that was the creature of dark in the last time it all came to pass was in the last battle of good and evil that must be fought to end the Age, just before the flood of Noah, and is recalled in the Mahabharata. The individual that sat in the creature of dark role, was rudra dwho was an albino, hence the white hair and eyes of fire.

So, with the above exceptions the God of the old testament is the god of the new testament, who had commandEd demeritus status shortly before the flood of Noah.

The reason I know this is that I am the first individual since Moses to function as Clarion for the On High. That's 75,000 years.

 

[pearl]

Eh... and how exactly does this quote clarify the contradictions between the God of the OT and the God of the NT?

I'll give you two reasons, the human factor that penned them, and the theology that guided them. Yet in the wisdom of the church, and the wisdom of the final editor of the Pentateuch the contradictions were kept.

 

[Seven headed beast]

Yes, they are the same. Both Jews and Christians worship the Father. I'm not aware of there being debate over that. It's the Son people like to debate about.

Actually, it's the Holy Ghost who is the Architect of the Universe, and Great Creator.

 

[Seven headed beast]

You have to realize that the so called bible was written by many people, there was no god involved, that is evidence of what we have, no loving god could ever write such disgusting crap and put that on us, it would need an evil and disgusting god to do so, thank you.

Psycho-

What you need to understand is the bible is nothing more than an eschatological prophecy, that the council of Nicea tried to add a message of good hope to. You cannot just toss in some butterflies and unicorns to an end times prophecy and expect it to change at all.

The council of Nicea tried to blow smoke up everyone's skirt and that's what you're seeing.

 

[psychoslice]

Psycho-

What you need to understand is the bible is nothing more than an eschatological prophecy, that the council of Nicea tried to add a message of good hope to. You cannot just toss in some butterflies and unicorns to an end times prophecy and expect it to change at all.

The council of Nicea tried to blow smoke up everyone's skirt and that's what you're seeing.

I see far beyond what is in the bible, and that is what I share, maybe you need to understand more ?.

 

[InChrist]

I'm trying to read the Bible and as I was reading, this question popped into my head. Is the God of the Old Testament and the New Testament the same God? Or are they different?

Edit: And could you please state how?

I do not believe the God revealed in the OT is different than the God in the NT. I see the scriptures as a revelation of Who God is to humanity and as the following article articulates, God demonstrates His various aspects of His nature, including love, mercy, and anger at sin in both the OT and NT.

Why is God so different in the Old Testament than He is in the New Testament?
"At the very heart of this question lies a fundamental misunderstanding of what both the Old and New Testaments reveal about the nature of God. Another way of expressing this same basic thought is when people say, “The God of the Old Testament is a God of wrath while the God of the New Testament is a God of love.” The fact that the Bible is God’s progressive revelation of Himself to us through historical events and through His relationship with people throughout history might contribute to misconceptions about what God is like in the Old Testament as compared to the New Testament. However, when one reads both the Old and the New Testaments, it becomes evident that God is not different from one testament to another and that God’s wrath and His love are revealed in both testaments."
Read more:
Why is God so different in the Old Testament than He is in the New Testament?

 

[MysticPhD]

Pcarl reiterated what I said. God did not change. The reason for the OT nonsense of a vengeful, wrathful, God stems from what ignorant, primitive, savage barbarians THOUGHT about God and His motives. That is because all their rulers were egotistical, vengeful barbaric men so they attributed the same traits to their ultimate ruler, God. Jesus came to lift the veil of ignorance over reading the OT and reveal the TRUE NATURE of God. Despite horrendous scourging and crucifixion, He smote no one and loved even His torturers and murderers because they knew not what they did. THAT is the true description of our God and the specific details of His nature are described in 1st Cor 13, Galatians 5, and the Sermon on the Mount. All the wrath and vengeance stuff is nonsense especially the eternal Hell.

 

[Shem Ben Noah]

I'm trying to read the Bible and as I was reading, this question popped into my head. Is the God of the Old Testament and the New Testament the same God? Or are they different?

Have you ever read "The Blind Men and the Elephant"?

...
And so these men of Indostan
Disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion
Exceeding stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right
And all were in the wrong!

 

[Aussiescribbler]

Depends on the author, though. John's God and Paul's God can be WAY more vindictive than, say, Mark's or James'. The God of the former will blast you to hell for all eternity because you didn't buy the WWJD bumper sticker. It's all about group identity for them, the most shallow of all possible reasons to worship a deity.

Recall as well that after the Flood, God is like, "My bad. That was overkill." He RELISHES killing off billions in Revelation without so much as a thought as to why that is even necessary.

I suppose where I see a big difference is between a prediction that God will kill lots of people and God ordering someone to kill people. If God is seen as our source of morality then it is a worry when that being demands such immoral behaviour as torturing people to death and massacring infants. If we view nature as God then we can see that God can kill large numbers of people and we can also see that our behaviour can sometimes play a role in determining whether this happens. With nature there are no guarantees, but we can increase our chances of surviving and thriving by working with nature rather than against, remembering that our fellow humans are a part of nature. Thus a community motivated by love and acting responsibly has a better chance than a community fighting with each other and dumping pollution everywhere. And if nature, and love as an expression of nature, is God, then that God probably won't instruct us to inflict needless suffering or massacre people simply because they have a different religion.

Also, it was John's Revelation. Is it not impossible that Paul, Peter and John had no real understanding of the God of whom Jesus spoke? So there may be more than one Christian God - the God Jesus spoke about and the God of his disciple's imagination.

Maybe it is just wishful thinking, but I like to think that the God of Jesus was nature/love rather than a supernatural being, and that those who followed him and wrote about him were simply unable to see things as clearly as he did and thus something clear and simple and healthy was represented on paper as something drenched in their superstition, guilt and fear.

 

[Akivah]

There is One God who has attributes of being All-Powerful, Omnipotence, and the Creator. However you argue it, from what we can determine about God based on understandings of OT and NT they are much more similar than different.

This is just based on wishful thinking, Christians just hoping that we worship the same being. The attributes of the deity that we worship is actually very different. Judaism is far closer to Islam than to Christianity in this regard.

The real issue between Jews and Christians appears to be whether or not Jesus was who He claimed to be. Jews say "Non", Christians say "Yes". What's new?

Based on what converts have told me, the identity of what we worship is not the biggest difference between Judaism and Christianity. The biggest difference between our two religions is our definition of and atonement processes for Sin.

 

[Dawnofhope]

This is just based on wishful thinking, Christians just hoping that we worship the same being. The attributes of the deity that we worship is actually very different. Judaism is far closer to Islam than to Christianity in this regard.

The Quran certainly has many references to the Tanakh and both Muhammad and Moses had a strong emphasis on monotheism as opposed to paganism. However even Islam considers Jesus as an important prophet and Muhammad makes references to Him. Christians seem to revere their Messiah as God, unlike Moses. That's where the waters become muddied. He wasn't just the Messiah, but was God in the flesh, literally rose from the dead, and could exclusively forgive sins and save souls. That's where it unravels for me. How about you?

Based on what converts have told me, the identity of what we worship is not the biggest difference between Judaism and Christianity. The biggest difference between our two religions is our definition of and atonement processes for Sin.

Perhaps, but to atone for sin, you must first worship Him as the Christians say and acknowledge that He was the Messiah in your sacred scriptures. There is another discussion to be had making sense of Christian salvation and whether or not Christians belief and what Christ taught align. I doubt if that discussion would hold to much interest for you.

 

[MysticPhD]

This is just based on wishful thinking, Christians just hoping that we worship the same being. The attributes of the deity that we worship is actually very different. Judaism is far closer to Islam than to Christianity in this regard.
Based on what converts have told me, the identity of what we worship is not the biggest difference between Judaism and Christianity. The biggest difference between our two religions is our definition of and atonement processes for Sin.

Since the atonement nonsense derives from the primitive and barbaric OT beliefs in blood sacrifice to appease God, there really is NOT a huge difference between Judaism, Christianity or Islam. The nonsense about hell is equally based on the erroneous beliefs about the nature of God and His motives which Jesus came to completely correct by His teaching and actions. The idea that sin is some violation of Divine Law is pure OT. Sin is just "missing the mark" through ignorance and superstition.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

I'm pretty sure El, G-d, and the Christian God are the same guy. I find it more curious that they kicked Asherah and the kids (the Elohim) out to the street, and Jehovah ordered her shrines destroyed. Anyway, the only one's that came up with anything were the Canaanites, everyone else ripped them off. I guess the Jews in the past decided ten Gods were too many, er something and had their split -- decided they were an "El" cult, and got fancy. Christians decided one God was too damn simple, so let's make three that are one.

I think the obvious is that monotheism is really about monopolizing religious/secular power. The priests didn't like it when Ankhenaton took away their funding to make a temple to Aten and the prophets didn't like the people wanting an actual government in Israel and other temples either.

And really, Jews didn't rip off the Canaanites: Jews used to be Israelites, who used to be Hebrews, who used to be Canaanites. They didn't rip off Canaanites so much as argue that the Head Honcho God was only THEIRS and not their cousins'.

If YOU are a 'true Christian' and have faith, then please DO enlighten us as to how all of the contradictions can be clarified.

I think Tumah was being sarcastic.

The reason I know this is that I am the first individual since Moses to function as Clarion for the On High. That's 75,000 years.

Nice to meet you. Please get in line with the rest of the Chosen Ones.

If God is seen as our source of morality then it is a worry when that being demands such immoral behaviour as torturing people to death and massacring infants.

I believe that if morality is so important that it can determine the quality of our afterlife, then we must value it enough to stand up even to God (a la Abraham and the author of Job and ... ok, not a whole lot of people do this) when morality is clearly being tossed aside. Anything less is butt-kissing, not morality.

Is it not impossible that Paul, Peter and John had no real understanding of the God of whom Jesus spoke?

Not hard to grasp at all. Even Jesus complains the apostles don't know anything and haven't grasped his teachings in the slightest. Why we hang on their every words like "gospel" is beyond me.

 

[Akivah]

The Quran certainly has many references to the Tanakh and both Muhammad and Moses had a strong emphasis on monotheism as opposed to paganism. However even Islam considers Jesus as an important prophet and Muhammad makes references to Him. Christians seem to revere their Messiah as God, unlike Moses. That's where the waters become muddied. He wasn't just the Messiah, but was God in the flesh, literally rose from the dead, and could exclusively forgive sins and save souls. That's where it unravels for me. How about you?

It isn't muddy, worshipping a man as god is directly where Christianity totally divests from Judaism. That Islam only worships one god and doesn't worship their prophet is why it is more like Judaism than Christianity.

 

[Akivah]

Since the atonement nonsense derives from the primitive and barbaric OT beliefs in blood sacrifice to appease God, there really is NOT a huge difference between Judaism, Christianity or Islam. The nonsense about hell is equally based on the erroneous beliefs about the nature of God and His motives which Jesus came to completely correct by His teaching and actions. The idea that sin is some violation of Divine Law is pure OT. Sin is just "missing the mark" through ignorance and superstition.

I agree MysticPhd. Your points show some stark differences between Judaism and Christianity.
We atone through repentance and prayer, they need a bloody sacrifice.
We don't believe in Hell, they do.
We believe that sin is part of G-d's Creation, they believe that a man's actions upended their god's original plan.