Is the Mind Too Insecure or Frightened to Know that There Is No God?

[Beaudreaux]

Since we are already having a similar discusion that presupposes the existence of God, I thought it might be interesting to have this one which does not. Why do you think so many human minds must create the notion of a God when no evidence for one exists? Is it because the human mind is too insecure to entertain the possibility that we are not eternal beings? That we will die one day and just cease to exist?

 

[whereismynotecard]

That might have something to do with it. I think humans also crave organization and rules though. All of these things are good, so do them. All of these things are bad, so don't do them. God said so. Do it right, or you'll go to hell.

 

[Willamena]

We needn't conceive a "God" to know ourselves as eternal beings; just conceiving the social construct ("I") to be a product of natural processes can accommodate that. While it's true that most people indulge fear of the loss of the social construct in a preconceived notion of "death", I've never been able to follow the train of ideas that suggest that that might lead to a conception of "God".

So, I guess I'm asking, what does insecurity and fright have to do with it?

 

[sandandfoam]

Perception and reality are products of our minds. Evidence too.
I think some non-believers make an error in the influence they believe fear of death has on believers. I don't think insecurity comes into it - for me it's about perception.
If someone believes God does not exist, then for that person he does not. The flip side is that if I believe God exists, then for me, He does.
Given that I do not accept that objective truths is knowable to us humans, for me, there is no tension inherent in the notion that God can both exist and not exist depending on your vantage point.


No. The mind is not too insecure or frightened to know that there is no God. I suggest the idea that it is so, is the result of cross situational projection, i.e that predictions of others responses to different situations are rooted in predictions of one's own response in that situation.

 

[Seven]

I think a big part of it is that humans are impatient for answers. We like to be certain and decisive, and a belief in god allows us to answer some of the big questions. (of course the god answer begs as many questions as it answers)

 

[blackout]

Why on earth would a "God" have to exist for us to be eternal beings?
What if existance (the stance of existing) never goes away, but just changes form?
(as it already does here on earth by it's own standards)

What if consciousness is just a natural innate part of the UniVerse?
What would that necessarily have to do with some "God"?

I don't really see how the two concepts are interdependent.

 

[Seven]

Why on earth would a "God" have to exist for us to be eternal beings?
What if existance (the stance of existing) never goes away, but just changes form?
(as it already does here on earth by it's own standards)

What if consciousness is just a natural innate part of the UniVerse?
What would that necessarily have to do with some "God"?

I don't really see how the two concepts are interdependent.

In any case there's no evidence that consciousness is eternal either, so both concepts are assumptions. The link between the two is that these beliefs arise in spite of the lack of evidence, and you have to wonder why.

 

[blackout]

In any case there's no evidence that consciousness is eternal either, so both concepts are assumptions. The link between the two is that these beliefs arise in spite of the lack of evidence, and you have to wonder why.

I'm more inclined to "edivence" that consciousness "moves on" ...
changes it's "state" of address and BEing,
just as the physical body does.
(as I have 'evidenced' as an attribute of the very same UniVerse)
Consciousness is not something you can "see" anyway.
You can only see how it "acts" on things.
If consciousness does not "act"/make itSelf known through a "body" ...
how will you know it's there?

What kind of evidence would you be looking for?

 

[Seven]

What kind of evidence would you be looking for?

I don't know, but what kind of evidence led you to this conclusion in the first place?

 

[blackout]

Well consciousness exists IN(as a part of) the very same UniVerse that matter does.

I see that matter does not simply "cease to exist".

Plausable possibility by association?

 

[Seven]

Well consciousness exists IN(as a part of) the very same UniVerse that matter does.

I see that matter does not simply "cease to exist".

Plausable possibility by association?

Perhaps, but consciousness seems to arise as a result of a complex arrangement of matter, ie the brain. the matter itself may not be able to be destroyed, but the order in which it is arranged can be.

Once this order is destroyed consciousness ceases to exist.

 

[Willamena]

Perhaps, but consciousness seems to arise as a result of a complex arrangement of matter, ie the brain. the matter itself may not be able to be destroyed, but the order in which it is arranged can be.

Once this order is destroyed consciousness ceases to exist.

Alternately, "matter" is a label a conscious mind has attached to a particular set of conditions that it recognized; so it could be said that "matter" arises from a complex idea that consciousness reconstructs moment to moment in memory. Who of us (ghosts) can say that it ceases at death or (as Vi suggested) "moves on" to localize itself around another combination of "matter"?

As romantic as the notion may be, it's no less far-fetched than that "death" equates to a part of the universe that, unlike matter, is capable of abruptly ceasing to exist.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Why do you think so many human minds must create the notion of a God when no evidence for one exists? Is it because the human mind is too insecure to entertain the possibility that we are not eternal beings? That we will die one day and just cease to exist?

Yes...

 

[Storm]

Since we are already having a similar discusion that presupposes the existence of God,

We are? Which one?

I thought it might be interesting to have this one which does not. Why do you think so many human minds must create the notion of a God when no evidence for one exists?

Simple answer: we don't. God was not simply invented, rather it is the label given to a certain set of experiences which are inarguably real (correctly interpreted is another matter).

Is it because the human mind is too insecure to entertain the possibility that we are not eternal beings? That we will die one day and just cease to exist?

No. I can entertain the notion easily, and indeed by my theology, the personality dies with the brain. Also, I can think of several theologies which make death even more frightening, not less. Why is it that unbelievers cling so desperately to this obvious strawman?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Why is it that unbelievers cling so desperately to this obvious strawman?

Because it's not a strawman - it applies to most people in most religions.

 

[Storm]

Because it's not a strawman - it applies to most people in most religions.

Really? Explain to me, then, how the threat of eternal hell assuages fear of death.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Really? Explain to me, then, how the threat of eternal hell assuages fear of death.

Most people belonging to religions that have a concept of hell, do not think that that is where they will be going. Do you really want to start getting into logical fallacies with me?

 

[Storm]

Most people belonging to religions that have a concept of hell, do not think that that is where they will be going.

Enough do that the argument fails. And that still completely ignores the religions that had either no, or an extremely limited concept of heaven. The Greek and Norse concepts of the afterlife were far from comforting, and there are some Native American traditions wherein oblivion is what you HOPE for.

Do you really want to start getting into logical fallacies with me?

Are you actually trying to be intimidating?

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Enough do that the argument fails. And that still completely ignores the religions that had either no, or an extremely limited concept of heaven. The Greek and Norse concepts of the afterlife were far from comforting, and there are some Native American traditions wherein oblivion is what you HOPE for.

I disagree. Most people are either christian or muslim - both religions have the concept of an afterlife paradise. I think it would be extremely naive to say that this isn't a source of comfort for most adherents to those religions.

The number of people who follow religions where the idea of the afterlife is specifically not comforting is exceedingly small, and certainly does not invalidate my argument.

Are you actually trying to be intimidating?

No, I'm simply trying to point out the hypocrisy of starting your argument by pointing out a strawman, then your next response contains one.

 

[Storm]

I disagree. Most people are either christian or muslim - both religions have the concept of an afterlife paradise. I think it would be extremely naive to say that this isn't a source of comfort for most adherents to those religions.

And I think it's naive to discount the majority of human history when discussing the motivations for religion.

The number of people who follow religions where the idea of the afterlife is specifically not comforting is exceedingly small, and certainly does not invalidate my argument.

Maybe now. Not historically.

No, I'm simply trying to point out the hypocrisy of starting your argument by pointing out a strawman, then your next response contains one.

Calling out a strawman is not a strawman. That doesn't even make sense.