Is the Qu'ran a book of love or hate?

[sun rise]

Specifically to the OP, in the modern world, it's helpful to know something about religion: the scriptures and history.

In the case of the Quran, there's an additional problem of translation since some parts are vastly different for different translators and other parts are reasonably close.

Also in the case of Islam, there's an additional question of who do you believe when it comes to saying of Muhammad because different groups value different reported sayings differently. (strong vs weak).

Then there's a matter of separating the culture from the religion. Some things are assumed to be part of religion in certain cultures but not others. Islam in the USA, for example, is vastly different than in Saudi Arabia.

 

[viole]

Either I will find verses talking about: Muhammad marrying a 6 year old, Muhammed lying down with dead bodies, killing and pillaging non-Abrahamics, and not considering the Jews as human beings even though they're fellow Abrahamics.

That is unfair. She was not 6 years old. I think she was 9 or something.

Ciao

- viole

 

[YmirGF]

That is unfair. She was not 6 years old. I think she was 9 or something.

Ciao

- viole

The vast majority of sources say he married her at 6 and consummated their marriage when she was 9.
In all fairness to Muslims, marrying young girls and women is not exactly unheard of in non-Muslim societies.

 

[ronki23]

Muhammad(pbuh) did not married 6 years old. killing non-Abrahamics or not considering the Jews as human beings. that's all fabricated stories or fake hadithes.

Quran never said oppression or make evil to others .

Wasn't Aisha 6 years old upon marriage and 9 upon consummation? Some sources say 16 and 19. I recall Mother Mary was 12-13 upon giving birth to Jesus and Joseph was 4 times her age? Both Abrahamic anyway so Christians shouldn't criticise

Didn't the Qu'ran say to fight the idol worshippers and disbelievers? Weren't the idols of Ka'Ba smashed?

As for the antisemitism in Islam, the Jews and Muslims have been at odds with one another well before the Israel/Palestine conflict. I recall Muhammad went to war with Jewish tribes

@Flankerl would know more about this but in one of the few occasions I agree with her, the Jews were kicked out of Muslim countries due to Israel/Palestine conflict even though these Arabic Jews had nothing to do with the European Jews

 

[Sha'irullah]

In my experience as a Muslim I read the Qur'an and remembered it as the words of "Allah(swt)!" But to outsiders they will not have this perception so it of course needs a hook. The Qur'an objectively is not about love and looking back at classical Islamic scholars like Ghazali it is often argued that love is a weakness and has disease like qualities. This is not even controversial to most Muslims. I knew many Muslims girls who claimed it was irrelevant whether a wife loved her husband as being with him was a way to Jannah. This notion is just a given norm and nothing to talk about for Muslims.

In context of Dawah and progressive fascists they must make groups hated and loved and will obviously like people to like whom they believe are beneficial for their own gains. So of course the Qur'an is called a book of love and humility and so forth which is true to some extent but collectively is just a rule book unlike the Bible. The Qur'an is legalistic and not a story teller when you place it next to essentially every other holy book except for some Hindu and Buddhist texts.

I nor any other Muslim viewed the Qur'an in the context of love and it was something akin to Tasawuffiya which is despised and spat upon by Sunnis like myself. This notion is very radical in Islamic theology or even Islamic mainstream thinking and is something reserved for Western ears and hearts. The Qur'an is to me like every other Muslim a source for theology and a way to perfect submission to Allah . . . or at least it was like that to me

 

[suncowiam]

From my very limited knowledge of religion and I do mean very limited, I would say it's not the book, it's the person.

 

[QuestioningMind]

I don't understand why both people for and against Islam tell me to read the Qu'ran.

Either I will find verses talking about: Muhammad marrying a 6 year old, Muhammed lying down with dead bodies, killing and pillaging non-Abrahamics, and not considering the Jews as human beings even though they're fellow Abrahamics.

Or I will read: how fighting should only be done in self defence, how women's rights have improved, how slavery was abolished, how you must give to charity, how you must feed others irrespective of religion.

Just like with the Christian bible there are verses that support love and there are verses that promote hate and violence.

 

[Notanumber]

Maybe you have to have been indoctrinated by Islam to be able to interpret the Quran as something better than it actually is.

 

[LionLooking]

Please find me the Hindu or Buddhist extremists, Sikhs, Shinto, Christians, or whatever engaged in terror.

Here you go:
Babbar Khalsa - Sikh terrorists
Army of God - Christian terrorists
Abhinav Bharat - Hindu terrorists
Kach and Kahane Chai, - Jewish terrorists
Aum Shinrikyo - Buddhist terrorists
Shinto ultranationalists - Shinto terrorists

 

[Mindmaster]

Here you go:
Babbar Khalsa - Sikh terrorists
Army of God - Christian terrorists
Abhinav Bharat - Hindu terrorists
Kach and Kahane Chai, - Jewish terrorists
Aum Shinrikyo - Buddhist terrorists
Shinto ultranationalists - Shinto terrorists

Yes, because these operations are certainly the scale of Islamic terrorism. Pardon me while I die laughing at you. Most of those are defunct, even.

 

[LionLooking]

Yes, because these operations are certainly the scale of Islamic terrorism.

Would you say then, that small groups practising terrorism are acceptable but Islamic terrorists are not? Why the difference?

Pardon me while I die laughing at you.

Should I call you an ambulance?

Most of those are defunct, even.

We can learn a lot from history - or do you think that everything not occurring today is irrelevant?

 

[LuisDantas]

From my very limited knowledge of religion and I do mean very limited, I would say it's not the book, it's the person.

That is a reasonable enough assumption. Not a very accurate one, alas.

I encourage you to research the matter. You may well be surprised.

 

[LuisDantas]

Maybe you have to have been indoctrinated by Islam to be able to interpret the Quran as something better than it actually is.

I don't think so. Being only vaguely aware of it does the trick nicely as well.

 

[LuisDantas]

Here you go:
Babbar Khalsa - Sikh terrorists
Army of God - Christian terrorists
Abhinav Bharat - Hindu terrorists
Kach and Kahane Chai, - Jewish terrorists
Aum Shinrikyo - Buddhist terrorists
Shinto ultranationalists - Shinto terrorists

I believe most of those - probably all - qualify nicely as strawmen, distracting from the matter at hand.

For better of worse, Islaam is unique among doctrines that claim religious value. It is "a complete way of life" (not my words, but those of Muslims).

 

[Godobeyer]

Wasn't Aisha 6 years old upon marriage and 9 upon consummation? Some sources say 16 and 19. I recall Mother Mary was 12-13 upon giving birth to Jesus and Joseph was 4 times her age? Both Abrahamic anyway so Christians shouldn't criticise

Didn't the Qu'ran say to fight the idol worshippers and disbelievers? Weren't the idols of Ka'Ba smashed?

I am not with Aisha(pbuh) married 6 years story.

I never heard about Mary(pbuh) giving birth to Jesus(pbuh) at 12.

God said in war to fight , He never ask us to begin the war. so all about defence.

Because we believe Kaba built by Abraham(pbuh) ,that region is all about Abrahamic religons events

 

[LuisDantas]

@Godobeyer , human nature makes it so that even enthusiastic genocide is often perceived as defence.

 

[LionLooking]

I believe most of those - probably all - qualify nicely as strawmen, distracting from the matter at hand.

For better of worse, Islaam is unique among doctrines that claim religious value. It is "a complete way of life" (not my words, but those of Muslims).

You can see them as straw men if you want to. Having been asked to provide examples of religious terrorists who were not Islamic, I gave my honest answer

 

[LuisDantas]

You can see them as straw men if you want to.

I will. There is a matter of accuracy and of necessary warning at hand here.

Having been asked to provide examples of religious terrorists who were not Islamic, I gave my honest answer

Fair enough. It is still a misleading if technically true answer, all the same.

 

[LionLooking]

I will. There is a matter of accuracy and of necessary warning at hand here.




Fair enough. It is still a misleading if technically true answer, all the same.

How can facts be misleading? And I'm not sure what you meant by Necessary warning'. Please explain

 

[suncowiam]

That is a reasonable enough assumption. Not a very accurate one, alas.

I encourage you to research the matter. You may well be surprised.

Luis,

What's your position concerning the OP? I read all your comments but could not conclude your position.

Thanks