Is the Qu'ran a book of love or hate?

[Sakeenah]

In my experience as a Muslim I read the Qur'an and remembered it as the words of "Allah(swt)!" But to outsiders they will not have this perception so it of course needs a hook. The Qur'an objectively is not about love and looking back at classical Islamic scholars like Ghazali it is often argued that love is a weakness and has disease like qualities. This is not even controversial to most Muslims. I knew many Muslims girls who claimed it was irrelevant whether a wife loved her husband as being with him was a way to Jannah. This notion is just a given norm and nothing to talk about for Muslims.

In context of Dawah and progressive fascists they must make groups hated and loved and will obviously like people to like whom they believe are beneficial for their own gains. So of course the Qur'an is called a book of love and humility and so forth which is true to some extent but collectively is just a rule book unlike the Bible. The Qur'an is legalistic and not a story teller when you place it next to essentially every other holy book except for some Hindu and Buddhist texts.

I nor any other Muslim viewed the Qur'an in the context of love and it was something akin to Tasawuffiya which is despised and spat upon by Sunnis like myself. This notion is very radical in Islamic theology or even Islamic mainstream thinking and is something reserved for Western ears and hearts. The Qur'an is to me like every other Muslim a source for theology and a way to perfect submission to Allah . . . or at least it was like that to me

Please speak for yourself, the fact that you were a Muslim for a couple of years doesn't make you an expert on the Quran or Muslims. The amount of Quran/Islam and Muslim experts in this thread is impressive..

 

[Godobeyer]

@Godobeyer , human nature makes it so that even enthusiastic genocide is often perceived as defence.

There was no genocide against non-Muslims during Prophet Muhammad(pbuh).

 

[Sha'irullah]

Please speak for yourself, the fact that you were a Muslim for a couple of years doesn't make you an expert on the Quran or Muslims. The amount of Quran/Islam and Muslim experts in this thread is impressive..

About 5 years to be precise and that entire time was in study. I studied Islamic theology, philosophy and got pretty good with Arabic although I stammer a lot when I speak it. So hush and go home if this murtad offends you by existing.

Every time I encounter an angry Muslim it is typically a girl trying to prove something and every single time they leave in disappointment. So go back to Allah abdah and see if he can pry my cold heart from my chest.

 

[Sakeenah]

About 5 years to be precise and that entire time was in study. I studied Islamic theology, philosophy and got pretty good with Arabic although I stammer a lot when I speak it. So hush and go home if this murtad offends you by existing.

Every time I encounter an angry Muslim it is typically a girl trying to prove something and every single time they leave in disappointment. So go back to Allah abdah and see if he can pry my cold heart from my chest.

Based on your post, it seems like you're the angry one here
I'm not trying to prove anything, I simply said..speak for yourself.
I don't see how disagreeing with you makes me an angry Muslim and why my gender relevant in this discussion.

As someone who was constantly studying you probably know that it takes a minimum of 5 years to understand the basics of the different sciences in Islam.
It's great that you studied Islamic theology and philosophy but those are two subjects out of the 10+ subjects. It's also generally known that to actually study these subjects in depth you need to be able to study the classical Islamic texts in Arabic. To do that you need to have studied arabic grammar,classical arabic rhetoric, arabic word morphology.

I'm not saying that every Muslim has to study Islam in depth( I personally haven't) or that you can only share your opinion if you are an expert. I'm simply saying that I have no problem with you sharing your opinions on Islam...just mention that it's your opinion, and it's not based on any in depth knowledge of Islam and Muslims.

Impressive you know the arabic word for female slave( 'abdah). I'm sure you are familiar with the fact that the use of this word is a slur, and that it's often used to degrade black people. If you were referring to a slave of God or servant of God it would be more appropriate to use the word abdullah/amatullah.

 

[Sha'irullah]

Based on your post, it seems like you're the angry one here
I'm not trying to prove anything, I simply said..speak for yourself.
I don't see how disagreeing with you makes me an angry Muslim and why my gender relevant in this discussion.

As someone who was constantly studying you probably know that it takes a minimum of 5 years to understand the basics of the different sciences in Islam.
It's great that you studied Islamic theology and philosophy but those are two subjects out of the 10+ subjects. It's also generally known that to actually study these subjects in depth you need to be able to study the classical Islamic texts in Arabic. To do that you need to have studied arabic grammar,classical arabic rhetoric, arabic word morphology.

I'm not saying that every Muslim has to study Islam in depth( I personally haven't) or that you can only share your opinion if you are an expert. I'm simply saying that I have no problem with you sharing your opinions on Islam...just mention that it's your opinion, and it's not based on any in depth knowledge of Islam and Muslims.

Impressive you know the arabic word for female slave( 'abdah). I'm sure you are familiar with the fact that the use of this word is a slur, and that it's often used to degrade black people. If you were referring to a slave of God or servant of God it would be more appropriate to use the word abdullah/amatullah.

I am done, I know jokes when I see em.

 

[ronki23]

Muhammad(pbuh) did not married 6 years old. killing non-Abrahamics or not considering the Jews as human beings. that's all fabricated stories or fake hadithes.

Quran never said oppression or make evil to others .

There are people who talk about how evil the Quran is based on a few verses that they've read on an anti-Islam website or based on their own interpretation. I always tell people to read the Quran and an exegesis so that you understand the context of the verses. There are verses that are clear and need no explanation,but there are verses that need you to understand the context.
The Quran is an inspiration,mercy and guide to me so I really believe it also depends on how you approach it , and what your intentions are.

I'm sure @Flankerl (our resident Jew) can find verses in Qu'ran or Hadith telling Muslims that Jews are the enemy.

Actually I was told by a Muslim 'friend' that Muhammad allowed Jews to pray. So which is it?

 

[ronki23]

Is it true the Qu'ran has verses of hate against Jews and idol worshippers? I thought Muhammad allowed Jews to pray?


@Aupmanyav @Vinayaka @sayak83 @Jainarayan @Flankerl @Kirran @KenS @LuisDantas @Lvcifer Invictvs @Epic Beard Man @sunrise123 @Sha'irullah @Sakeenah @Notanumber @ShivaFan @ajay0 @Armoured @Grandliseur

 

[Notanumber]

Is it true the Qu'ran has verses of hate against Jews and idol worshippers? I thought Muhammad allowed Jews to pray?

This man knows all about how Islam treats Kafirs and People of the Book- Political Islam

 

[Faithofchristian]

Specifically to the OP, in the modern world, it's helpful to know something about religion: the scriptures and history.

In the case of the Quran, there's an additional problem of translation since some parts are vastly different for different translators and other parts are reasonably close.

Also in the case of Islam, there's an additional question of who do you believe when it comes to saying of Muhammad because different groups value different reported sayings differently. (strong vs weak).

Then there's a matter of separating the culture from the religion. Some things are assumed to be part of religion in certain cultures but not others. Islam in the USA, for example, is vastly different than in Saudi Arabia.

My question is, exactly how is Islam in the USA, different than Islam in Saudi Arabia.

How is Saudi Arabia different than Iran and Iraq, then Islam in the USA, Seeing all Islam goes by the same book the Q'uran ?

 

[sun rise]

My question is, exactly how is Islam in the USA, different than Islam in Saudi Arabia.

How is Saudi Arabia different than Iran and Iraq, then Islam in the USA, Seeing all Islam goes by the same book the Q'uran ?

The same question can be asked about various Protestant groups and Catholics since all go by the Bible. Some churches are pro-gay marriage, for example, while others consider it unBiblical. I think Abraham Lincoln's comments in his 2nd inaugural address provides a clear way of seeing how people interpret scripture differently because both the North and the South justified their view on slavery by citing the Bible.

The most obvious difference between Saudi Arabia and the USA is political with Saudi Arabia enforcing an extremely conservative view of Islam by law. The history of the region is very interesting. Part 1 of one source is here: You Can't Understand ISIS If You Don't Know the History of Wahhabism in Saudi Arabia | HuffPost

 

[Faithofchristian]

The same question can be asked about various Protestant groups and Catholics since all go by the Bible. Some churches are pro-gay marriage, for example, while others consider it unBiblical. I think Abraham Lincoln's comments in his 2nd inaugural address provides a clear way of seeing how people interpret scripture differently because both the North and the South justified their view on slavery by citing the Bible.

The most obvious difference between Saudi Arabia and the USA is political with Saudi Arabia enforcing an extremely conservative view of Islam by law. The history of the region is very interesting. Part 1 of one source is here: You Can't Understand ISIS If You Don't Know the History of Wahhabism in Saudi Arabia | HuffPost

Nope the same question can not be ask about Protestants, Seeing the Thread is about "Is the Q'uran a book of love or hate"

 

[England my lionheart]

I don't understand why both people for and against Islam tell me to read the Qu'ran.

Even if you can't read all of it you can at least get a flavour of it although for sunnies there is the addition of hadiths which I find far more interesting.

Either I will find verses talking about: Muhammad marrying a 6 year old, Muhammed lying down with dead bodies, killing and pillaging non-Abrahamics, and not considering the Jews as human beings even though they're fellow Abrahamics.

You'll find all that in the hadiths too.

Or I will read: how fighting should only be done in self defence, how women's rights have improved, how slavery was abolished, how you must give to charity, how you must feed others irrespective of religion.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I see no beauty in it or love, lots of punishment and grovelling like a slave 5 times a day,an A to Z of how to do everything from ablutions to Zakat, obviously over a billion people disagree but they were born into the religion.

 

[ronki23]

My question is, exactly how is Islam in the USA, different than Islam in Saudi Arabia.

How is Saudi Arabia different than Iran and Iraq, then Islam in the USA, Seeing all Islam goes by the same book the Q'uran ?

Well Saudi Arabia (and Sudan) use Wahabbi Sunni Islam,
Iran is Shia Islam,
Afghanistan and Pakistan is Deobandi Sunni Islam,
India is a mixture of Ahmadiyaa and Sufi Islam.

Different interpretations. I've said many times that Salafi and Deobandi Islam are evil, Wahabbi Islam isn't perfect either. I prefer Shia, Sufi and Ahmadi

 

[Samantha Rinne]

It's a book of hate, sorry.

We were reading today about Jesus overturning the temple market, and have sometimes it's the duty of religious people to address things that have gone wrong.

So here, this is what's wrong.

• Widespread homophobia and sexism.
  
• Inability to question the core scripture. It is regarded as infallible, meaning if it tells you to do something no other religion or civilization would realistically condemn, they still are not allowed to question it.
• And there are such issues. Polygamy is NOT cool, it reduces a wife, who is supposed to be the love of your life, into a symbol of wealth (like how many cattle you have). Slavery is NOT cool, it turns humans into... well, slaves. Genital mutilation ("Female Circumcision") is NOT cool, as it often creates lifelong sexual issues, including making the simple process of menstruation nearly life-threatening.
  
• The Hijab. Honestly, you can wear whatever you please, but that only women wear the hijab, and those women who go without are often brutally punished, including being stoned or burned with acid.
• Jihad could legitimately be about self-conquering, as it probably is with the more spiritual Sufi (regarded as "heretics" by the largely materialistic mainstream Muslims). But instead it's become synonymous with bloodshed. This is something seriously wrong.
• Failure to take responsibility for any actions. This is a subset of kismet philosophy. I don't mind having a strong sense of fate. Fine. But I know the very next responder is gonna be like, "But you also do (this or that problem)..." NO. I own up to most of my problems. I work to improve myself. You don't get to pass the buck. Own up to your problems, and all is well. But Islam seems unable to do this.
  
• There is no sense of equivalency. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"? Oh they say they have that. But here is what I mean by lack of equivalency. Muslim immigrants are welcomed into countries like Sweden, and the natives welcome them with open arms. They support them with welfare, they offer free healthcare, they offer them their own homes in some cases, and even make it a crime to talk bad about them. What is their response? "You aren't becoming a Sharia state, we are at war with you." What the hell?!? When someone treats you decently, even suffering as a result, it is NOT okay to act like this.

Actually, let's focus on this one problem. More even than violence, this is Islam's sin. I want you to see this. The elderly and poor are suffering, but immigrants are whining about "lack of WiFi."

 

[sun rise]

Nope the same question can not be ask about Protestants, Seeing the Thread is about "Is the Q'uran a book of love or hate"

So you are stating that Abraham Lincoln was wrong? I vote with Lincoln. And I commented on the thread you note with something akin to what I commented on here. My answer is consistent.

 

[Faithofchristian]

So you are stating that Abraham Lincoln was wrong? I vote with Lincoln. And I commented on the thread you note with something akin to what I commented on here. My answer is consistent.

I was

So you are stating that Abraham Lincoln was wrong? I vote with Lincoln. And I commented on the thread you note with something akin to what I commented on here. My answer is consistent.

What does Abraham Lincoln and the war between the North and South, have to do with Islam's Q'uran ?
Everything I committed on ties with Q'uran.
Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, all have the Q'uran, that they go by.

Neither Abraham Lincoln nor the North or the South went by the q'uran.

Therefore how do you go about trying to tie the Q'uran to Abraham Lincoln and the war between the North and South to the Q'uran when neither of them went by the q'uran.

So how is it that your dragging the bible into the thread, When the Thread is not about the bible but about the Q'uran.

 

[Faithofchristian]

I don't understand why both people for and against Islam tell me to read the Qu'ran.

Either I will find verses talking about: Muhammad marrying a 6 year old, Muhammed lying down with dead bodies, killing and pillaging non-Abrahamics, and not considering the Jews as human beings even though they're fellow Abrahamics.

Or I will read: how fighting should only be done in self defence, how women's rights have improved, how slavery was abolished, how you must give to charity, how you must feed others irrespective of religion.

The reason why people tell you to read the q'uran so that you know exactly what the q'uran stands for.

By your reading the q'uran it will give you to know is the q'uran hate or love.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Which is the greater taboo, criticising the Bible or the Quran?

Which is the greater taboo, criticizing the Q'uran, if you are found in criticizing the Q'uran, you are to be found and put to death.

Where as the bible if your found in criticizing, that's not for any Christian to say or do, that will be between you and God on judgement day.
And not you and a Christian.

If you criticize the bible, what's that to me as a Christian. That's between you and God and not you and a Christian.

 

[Muffled]

I don't understand why both people for and against Islam tell me to read the Qu'ran.

Either I will find verses talking about: Muhammad marrying a 6 year old, Muhammed lying down with dead bodies, killing and pillaging non-Abrahamics, and not considering the Jews as human beings even though they're fellow Abrahamics.

Or I will read: how fighting should only be done in self defence, how women's rights have improved, how slavery was abolished, how you must give to charity, how you must feed others irrespective of religion.

I believe it is neither but is a book containing a message from God.

I believe none of those things are in the text. They might be in the Hadiths or a history.

I believe you will find that one but the others I am not sure about.

 

[Muffled]

In what context?

If you want to do proper research into a topic, you have to consult primary sources. When it comes to studying religions that have a sacred text, this necessarily means reading that sacred text. Since most of these texts are somewhat impenetrable to modern readers, it's good to couple this with commentaries from recognized authorities to help you make sense of it or point out known translation issues. I would couch that within an understanding of how that text is used in the living traditions of the religion. A sacred text isn't the be-all and end-all of the religions that have them after all, but it's a necessary component of proper study.

I believe I found the Saudi Arabian commentary on the Qu'ran to be bogus.