Is the Quran only for Muslims?

[Muslim Atheism]

Yes and that's made me wonder so much.

 

[Muslim Atheism]

There are benefits like having a good way of social life. The Quran does not just introduce a doctrine, it teaches and encourages people to do good things, and make them aware of common sense that depending on the IQ of some people, they might not notice. Social life values are introduced in the Quran too.

Then I guess people can understand all that without the Quran, it does not make much difference to claim as the universal message. There is no promise to the non-Muslims.

 

[Muslim Atheism]

These are both are correct.

Then there is no issue at all if we are basing on this presumption, and without evidence to support such claims.

 

[outhouse]

So which historical facts is correct ?

No, which is not correct is the question.

Abraham, Moses, Noah, Sheba, do not have any historicity what so ever.

They are considered literary creations.


It is upon you to validate their historicity, to prove the koran is accurate.

Since they plagiarized this mythology and wrote it hundreds and hundreds of years after the original mythology. You have no chance.

 

[outhouse]

Then there is no issue at all if we are basing on this presumption, and without evidence to support such claims.

It is blatantly plagiarized mythology.


There was no Noah, no Sheba, no Moses, no Exodus.


That proves the pedophile could only steal mythology

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Muhammad

Modern critics have criticized Muhammad for preaching beliefs that are incompatible with democracy; Somali-Dutch feminist writer Ayaan Hirsi Ali has called him a "tyrant"[26] and a "pervert".[27] The Dutch Party for Freedom leader Geert Wilders calls Muhammad a "mass murderer and a pedophile".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Islam


the Quran contains verses which are difficult to understand or contradictory.[69]
Some accounts of the history of Islam say there were two verses of the Quran that were allegedly added by Muhammad when he was tricked by Satan (in an incident known as the "Story of the Cranes", later referred to as the "Satanic Verses"). These verses were then retracted at angel Gabriel's behest.[70][71]
The author of the Apology of al-Kindy Abd al-Masih ibn Ishaq al-Kindi (not to be confused with the famed philosopher al-Kindi) claimed that the narratives in the Quran were "all jumbled together and intermingled" and that this was "an evidence that many different hands have been at work therein, and caused discrepancies, adding or cutting out whatever they liked or disliked".[

 

[outhouse]

lol. i loved that. as if he can go back to prove that things he reads in books has really happened.

Your known biased apologist, who refuses credible history.

Im starting to learn no muslim accepts credible history because of the severe fundamentalism that is required by the religion.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Then I guess people can understand all that without the Quran, it does not make much difference to claim as the universal message. There is no promise to the non-Muslims.

How can those with problems in catching common sense understand it (someone has to tell them, and one of those is the Quran), and do people only do good deeds if there is a promise behind it?

I don't mean to argue, I'm only interested in your views.

 

[outhouse]

How can those with problems in catching common sense understand it.

I would say that to all muslims.

Common sense tells us that the scripture is just a later version of the bible, with no historical aspects correct of any Jewish history.


Its the only religion that states all other religions are wrong, and corrupt. It is circular thinking. The problem lies with this being the foundation of the whole religion.

Do you think your books are historically correct?

 

[outhouse]

, it does not make much difference to claim as the universal message.

There are universal messages that can be stripped from the mythology and dogma, that would be good for all.

But the only way to do that is to flush the religion, and start over with just the good morals within its pages, mixed with the good lessons of other religions after they are trashed, and mythology and dogma stripped away.


A universal religion could be created that was positive in all aspects, but the only way to keep primitive people fighting over interpretation content. Is to throw out the garbage and start with a clean slate.


One focused on education and knowledge and what is knowable. Teachings of peace and compassion and how to get a long with people holding different beliefs. A godless religion, since no god addresses any truth.

 

[Sha'irullah]

The Qur'an is only relevant to Muslims, by Muslims and for Muslims. It will always stay that way considering mulhids like myself do not appreciate what the Qur'an has to say about anything.
To me it is immoral and out of date as are most scriptures in general. I value reason over myth and the world over magical realms.
The only two mythical beings I want to exist is ponies and nekomimis and I will keep it at that.

...Mew

 

[Muslim Atheism]

No, which is not correct is the question.

Then none is correct , since none are direct evidence but merely theoretical and hearsay, ie. speculation.

. . .

It is upon you to validate their historicity

Nope, the Quran clearly prohibits Muslims from dispute in any unverifiable historical facts.
Those whose disobey the 'DO NOT' prohibitions are not True Muslims.

Analogical reasoning and the principle relating to historical facts:

They will say there were three, the fourth of them being their dog

and they will say there were five, the sixth of them being their dog​

guessing at the unseen

and they will say there were seven, and the eighth of them was their dog​

Say, "My Lord is most knowing of their number.
NONE KNOWS them except a few.

So DO NOT argue about them except with an obvious argument
and DO NOT inquire about them among [the speculators] from anyone."​

18.22​

So historical facts or unverifiable claims or big bang etc is cognitively meaningless to me.
I was not there to witness all those things (the unseen), neither the historical writers, scientists and others etc.
They are merely speculators.

And they have thereof no knowledge.
They follow not except assumption,
and indeed, assumption avails not against the truth at all.
53.28​

. . .

to prove the koran is accurate.

Accuracy of the text (contents) is verifiable through the principle of logic, and from the logical premises of the Quran itself, ie. the 'statement propositions'.

. . .

Since they plagiarized this mythology and wrote it hundreds and hundreds of years after the original mythology. You have no chance.

That's blank claims, but imo the structure of the language itself tells everything, no discrepancy.

 

[Muslim Atheism]

How can those with problems in catching common sense understand it (someone has to tell them, and one of those is the Quran), and do people only do good deeds if there is a promise behind it?

I don't mean to argue, I'm only interested in your views.

imo the Quran cannot be universal if those who do not adhere to the 'religion of Islam' will end in hell . . .therefore, it will invalidate these premises:

If God is the Lord of the worlds (1.2) and the Prophet is described as the messenger for the worlds (21.107) and the Quran is introduced as a reminder to the worlds, (68.52)

 

[Muslim Atheism]

It is blatantly plagiarized mythology.


There was no Noah, no Sheba, no Moses, no Exodus.


That proves the pedophile could only steal mythology

Criticism of Muhammad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Modern critics have criticized Muhammad for preaching beliefs that are incompatible with democracy; Somali-Dutch feminist writer Ayaan Hirsi Ali has called him a "tyrant"[26] and a "pervert".[27] The Dutch Party for Freedom leader Geert Wilders calls Muhammad a "mass murderer and a pedophile".

Criticism of Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


the Quran contains verses which are difficult to understand or contradictory.[69]
Some accounts of the history of Islam say there were two verses of the Quran that were allegedly added by Muhammad when he was tricked by Satan (in an incident known as the "Story of the Cranes", later referred to as the "Satanic Verses"). These verses were then retracted at angel Gabriel's behest.[70][71]
The author of the Apology of al-Kindy Abd al-Masih ibn Ishaq al-Kindi (not to be confused with the famed philosopher al-Kindi) claimed that the narratives in the Quran were "all jumbled together and intermingled" and that this was "an evidence that many different hands have been at work therein, and caused discrepancies, adding or cutting out whatever they liked or disliked".[

I guess you are referring to the hadith, I don't follow the hadith. . (prohibition of hadith)

 

[Muslim Atheism]

Common sense tells us that the scripture is just a later version of the bible, with no historical aspects correct of any Jewish history.

Yes, the Quran is the Final Testament and Muslims must believe all previous scriptures through the confirming function of the Quran.

1. Torah - Old Testament
2. Gospel - New Testament
3. Quran - Final Testament​

It is from the same source and therefore, there must be some similarities.

. . .

Its the only religion that states all other religions are wrong, and corrupt. It is circular thinking. The problem lies with this being the foundation of the whole religion.

The arabic word for religion is madhab (مذه&#1576 and there is not a single word of 'madhab' in the Quran. You can search for yourself. . .

However, in the Qur'an itself, the act of submission to God is always referred to as Dīn, rather than as Madhhab (مذه&#1576, which is the Arabic word for "religion"; Wikipedia

 

[outhouse]

I guess you are referring to the hadith, I don't follow the hadith. . (prohibition of hadith)

Did I even comment on the hadith?

 

[Muslim Atheism]

Then where is the name of 'Muhammad' in the Quran ?

As far for my concern, there is none. . .

 

[outhouse]

Then none is correct , since none are direct evidence but merely theoretical and hearsay, ie. speculation.

Im sorry but we don't do inane methodology here.

It does not work like that, one truth does not make all true. And one lie does not make all lies. One myth does not make it all myth.


That is a fact my friend.

I only question if I need to post the definition of fact for you.

Nope, the Quran clearly prohibits Muslims from dispute in any unverifiable historical facts.

And it would never be perverted by people who believe all other prophets are in error.

I was not there to witness all those things

Barbaric statement of those who do not understand how knowledge is obtained.


History and science is credible.


What is dragging humanity down is lack of education, and outright refusal of education. Fundamentalism and Fanaticism.

 

[outhouse]

Yes, the Quran is the Final Testament.

:biglaugh:


No it is not.


That is fundamentalism and fanaticism



It is the work of man, who plagiarized previous religions.

Muslims must believe all previous scriptures through the confirming function of the Quran

Sickness, to pervert all other religions in the face outright pseudohistory and mythology.

But muslims factually and falsely discount these previous scripture as being corrupt.

 

[outhouse]

It is from the same source and therefore, there must be some similarities.

..

There are similarities. All stolen.

The Abrahamic god concept was stolen by what you call prophets, the rest of the world views as thieves and plagiarist.

Noah, Moses, Sheba, Abraham, Yahweh, all taken.

 

[Muslim Atheism]

Im sorry but we don't do inane methodology here.

It does not work like that, one truth does not make all true. And one lie does not make all lies. One myth does not make it all myth.


That is a fact my friend.

I only question if I need to post the definition of fact for you.

So it is not theoretical and hearsay, but direct evidence ?


. . .

And it would never be perverted by people who believe all other prophets are in error.

How can that be related to the issue relating to the prohibition of relying on 'unverifiable historical facts' ?

Please elaborate. . .


. . .

Barbaric statement of those who do not understand how knowledge is obtained.


History and science is credible.


What is dragging humanity down is lack of education, and outright refusal of education. Fundamentalism and Fanaticism.

It is still assumption. . . and it will only distress the society and cause disunity. That is more barbaric to me, fighting over 'the unseen'.