Is the Quran only for Muslims?

[outhouse]

You're using a logic that describes what you say as fundamentalism and fanaticism more than it is for what I say. I believe my things but you state ideas forcing them as a fact. That is real fundamentalism and fanaticism. What you typed in red proves it.

I mentioned over and over that what I believe is what I believe and I don't impose it on others.

We should respect each others' freedom of religious opinions. If we don't, it would be another form of fundamentalism and fanaticism.

Unless you can prove your god exist, I am 100% correct. That is reality bud, not fanaticism or fundamentalism.

Factually only men write. Now what other supernatural unsubstantiated claims would you like to talk about?

 

[outhouse]

Please don't impose your personal findings on others as perfect facts..

Oh I am not imposing.

Im stating facts. You just do not accept modern education and knowledge.

Finkelstein states it is fact there was no Exodus, and that Israelites evolved from displaced Canaanites.

King Solomon factually did not exist as written. The mythology states he had more wives then all of Israels population at that time.

There factually was no Noah.

Abraham is a literary creation and factually has no historicity at all.


Does being muslim prohibit you from accepting knowledge.

Abraham - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


By the beginning of the 21st century, and despite sporadic attempts by more conservative scholars such as Kenneth Kitchen to save the patriarchal narratives as history, archaeologists had "given up hope of recovering any context that would make Abraham, Isaac or Jacob credible 'historical figures'".


At some stage in Israel's history the oral traditions became part of the written tradition of the Pentateuch; a majority of scholars believes this stage belongs to the Persian period, roughly 520–320 BCE.

 

[outhouse]

Try and prove any of these, have any historicity what so ever.

Noah, Moses, Abraham, Queen of Sheba. Adam and Eve.


Then show HOW your book gets this history correct.

 

[Smart_Guy]

It is okay man, I never had a problem with what you believe about Islam. It is your opinion and I respect the freedom of opinions.

Your problem is imposing your self with statements; e.g. "I'm 100% correct", trying to prove others wrong in their beliefs, like you have a grudge against them. Facts? Well, looking for (supposed) facts and use them in an offensive manner to try to prove others wrong, I cannot find another word to describe it but as bigotry. Not to mention accusations.

If religious talk can show fanaticism or fundamentalism, so can anti-religious talk.

 

[Pastek]

Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They maintain that the previous messages and revelations have been partially misinterpreted or altered over time,[5] but consider the Arabic Qur'an to be both the unaltered and the final revelation of God


States right there, Yours is wrong and ours is right. after it plagiarized these previous religions.

It doesn't mean their Book is ALL wrong, this is your interpretation.
The article doesn't say everything in it is wrong.

In the Quran it says few times that it was altered yes, but most of time it says that they have Revelations from God and they should follow the rules of Allah.
Never God said in the Quran that it was false like you suggest.


So just to be clear here are some of the verses and then people can make their own conclusions :

5.43 But how is it that they come to you (Muhammad) for judgement while they have the Torah, in which is the judgement of Allah ?

5.68 Say, "O People of the Scripture, you are [standing] on nothing until you uphold [the law of] the Torah, the Gospel, and what has been revealed to you from your Lord."

5.47 And let the People of the Gospel judge by what Allah has revealed therein. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the defiantly disobedient.


In the time of the Prophet Muhammad, God said that they (people of the Book) should follow their rules. How can they follow God's Law if it's false ?


Concerning the "plagiarization" of their Scriptures for us it's just a reminding from God's Revelations like it was said in the Quran many times :

87.14-15 He has certainly succeeded who purifies himself and mentions the name of his Lord and prays.

87.19 Indeed, this is in the former scriptures, The scriptures of Abraham and Moses.


So yes, we know very well that in our Book there's many references from the Scriptures and that some of our rules are similar.The Quran said many times that He (God) already revealed that before (the stories).


2.285 The Messenger believes in what has been sent down to him from his Lord, and (so do) the believers. Each one believes in Allah, His Angels, His Books, and His Messengers.

4.136 O you who believe! Believe in Allah, and His Messenger (Muhammad), and the Book (the Quran) which He has sent down to His Messenger, and the Scripture which He sent down to those before (him)


I hope this is clear.God said in few verses that some part of the Scriptures were altered,but we still have to believe in it even if through time it was changed.So concerning the question of the thread : is Quran only for muslims ?
Quran is for who believes in God and the previous Revelations and believes in Muhammad too.And if it pleases you to follow some rules of Islam even if you aren't a believer, well you are free to do what you want.

 

[outhouse]

It is okay man, I never had a problem with what you believe about Islam. It is your opinion and I respect the freedom of opinions.
.

What you fail to realize my friend, is that I am talking about the current state of education and knowledge.

It is the worlds opinion, not just mine.

Your problem is imposing your self with statements; e.g. "I'm 100% correct",

What I stated is not up for debate, you just wont accept the truth of reality.

trying to prove others wrong in their beliefs, like you have a grudge against them.

You dont get it, Im not trying to prove, it has already been done by reality and facts and truth.

You just wont acept it due to religious bias.

Do you understand how religions close minds?

I cannot find another word to describe it but as bigotry.

That is what people say when they do not understand the reality of a situation, and refuse education and knowledge.

People who refuse education and knowledge, which I have posted credible links to back my position, are following a mentality of fanaticism.

 

[outhouse]

It doesn't mean their Book is ALL wrong, this is your interpretation.
.

No it is not my postion, I am not stating you believe every word your book says about your god, while not believing the oher books. You do not.

Your books have altered and changed the other books, the same way your religion tells you their prophets had corrupted these books over time.

Only your books have less historicity then the originals. Your book is not an original. It is plagiarized.

So just to be clear here are some of the verses and then people can make their own conclusions :

Sura 4.171 O followers of the Book! do not exceed the limits in your religion, and do not speak (lies) against Allah, but (speak) the truth; the Messiah, Isa son of Marium is only an apostle of Allah and His Word which He communicated to Marium and a spirit from Him; believe therefore in Allah and His apostles, and say not, Three. Desist, it is better for you; Allah is only one God; far be It from His glory that He should have a son, whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His, and Allah is sufficient for a Protector.


So islam slams christianity as a whole attacking its heart and soul


Sura 6.101 Wonderful Originator of the heavens and the earth! How could He have a son when He has no consort, and He (Himself) created everything, and He is the Knower of all things

Which is not historically accruate proving no divine inspiration. Yahweh had a consort Asherah, before monotheistic redactions of the bible.


Sura 9.30 And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!

religion of peace?


"And because of their breaking their covenant, We have cursed them
and made hard their hearts. They change words from their places and
have abandoned a good part of the message that was sent to them.
And you will not cease to discover deceit in them, except a few of
them. But forgive them and overlook(their misdeed). Verily! Allah
loves the kindly". The Qur'an, Al-Maidah(5):13.

 

[Smart_Guy]

No problem man. But remember, having opposite and different views does not mean affecting friendliness. Please don't let this discussion build a wall between us

 

[outhouse]

No problem man. But remember, having opposite and different views does not mean affecting friendliness. Please don't let this discussion build a wall between us

Its not a wall between us, it is a wall between truth and reality.

I have posted links showing the Canaanite origins of Israelites, not Egypt.

I have posted links showing Abraham factually has no historicity.


God had a wife.

allah is a compilation of deities El and Yahweh.



I know you cannot adress these.

 

[outhouse]

What confuses me is how you can claim your history is more accurate, when it was written thousands of years after the events.

You will claim god said so. Yet no CREDIBLE history class in the world teaches history that is accurate because "god said so".

God said your book was accurate, and I can show it factually is not historically accurate. AND HAVE POSTED CREDIBLE LINKS BACKING MY POSITION.

Not once have I used circular thinking, like;;;; my history book says it is correct so it must be correct. History books have facts that help them determine what happened in the past.

 

[Smart_Guy]

I dunno why it is like you're desperately trying to win a "prove me wrong or it is the end of the world" fight or something. Take it easy, don't let differing in views make you so tense then little by little a radical like it did many of those people. Everyone has the right to claim anything as long as it is claimed to be their own convincing and belief with out inflecting damage to others. At least I'm not trying to force my beliefs into someone. It is called respecting one another. Dude, I can't believe a Middle Eastern is telling a Westerner these things.

As for your links, I have my own link that supports my views. It is the Quran. Why would your links be perfect and mine not? Neither are to be described as correct full stop, but believed to be correct.

You need to chill out man. We're sharing views. It is not we are planning to physically harm each other or something. Life is beautiful. One should just find out how to live it.

 

[Pastek]

Your books have altered and changed the other books, the same way your religion tells you their prophets had corrupted these books over time.

We never said their prophets have done what you said.
And concerning the changing of their Books, well they were already changed and non-muslims scholars already talked about it.
What some scholars say today we know it since the 6th century.

Sura 4.171 O followers of the Book! do not exceed the limits in your religion, and do not speak (lies) against Allah, but (speak) the truth; the Messiah, Isa son of Marium is only an apostle of Allah and His Word which He communicated to Marium and a spirit from Him; believe therefore in Allah and His apostles, and say not, Three. Desist, it is better for you; Allah is only one God; far be It from His glory that He should have a son, whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His, and Allah is sufficient for a Protector.

So islam slams christianity as a whole attacking its heart and soul

It attacks some christian's beliefs not Jesus teachings.

"And because of their breaking their covenant, We have cursed them
and made hard their hearts. They change words from their places and
have abandoned a good part of the message that was sent to them.
And you will not cease to discover deceit in them, except a few of
them. But forgive them and overlook(their misdeed). Verily! Allah
loves the kindly". The Qur'an, Al-Maidah(5):13.

Jesus already said it :

Matt. 23.13 Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.

This verse you quoted have nothing to do with the religion itself but about some believers who didn't follow God's Law. Jesus said it before like other of their prophets already said it.

 

[outhouse]

I dunno why it is like you're desperately trying to win a "prove me wrong or it is the end of the world" fight or something. .

I tend to promote truth in science and history.

Religion does not do this, I wish it did.


This is not personal against you, I actually like you and find you to be very reasonable to some extent, and of good character.

I dont give blind compliments either.

It is not we are planning to physically harm each other or something

Why even go there? I have no ill feelings. All I am trying to do is get you to accept the historical truth knowmn through credible education and knowledge.

We're sharing views.

Exactly.

But we have contrasting views. We are supposed to be debating to find truth. One of us is backed by education and every college in the world, the other person by religious views containing some mythology.

Keeping your religious views are great, I have no issue with that.

Its when you make statements against this knowledge, that I am trying to correct, it is my position islam is not for the rest of the world, as your own people murder each other over the books. More so then teh rest of the worlds religions. And in debating this, trying to find out why to correct these issues. If we dont run from the truth.

 

[outhouse]

Matt. 23.13 Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.

This verse you quoted have nothing to do with the religion itself but about some believers who didn't follow God's Law. Jesus said it before like other of their prophets already said it.

This in context is talking about some of the Pharisees and temple authorities which acted as the governement and treasury known to be corrupted due to Roman oppression.

It is not addressing Judaism or Christianity as a whole.

And it in context has absolutely nothing to do with the koran verse I posted that shows islams book factually tearing out the heart of christianity

 

[Muslim Atheism]

I only see blank claims and speculation (for example), no truth and knowledge.

There is no supporting evidence that corroborates with the main source or the Constitution itself , ie. the Quran.

 

[outhouse]

It attacks some christian's beliefs not Jesus teachings.

Thats funny because we are not sure what jesus taught in full. because some writers were writing decades after jesus death and did not get it all right.

Which shows korans erorrs are deeper, because it wrote hundreds of years after jesus death.

 

[Muslim Atheism]

Which shows korans erorrs are deeper, because it wrote hundreds of years after jesus death.

Another blank claims and speculation.

Koran errors are deeper

BECAUSE

It wrote hundreds years after Jesus​

How could that separate issue be relevant ?

Where is the error ?

and which part it is from the Bible ?​

 

[outhouse]

I only see blank claims and speculation (for example), no truth and knowledge.

There is no supporting evidence that corroborates with the main source or the Constitution itself , ie. the Quran.

Provide evidence for the historicity of Abraham, Noah, Moses, Exodus, Queen of Sheba, and we will talk.

 

[outhouse]

Another blank claims and speculation.

Koran errors are deeper

BECAUSE

It wrote hundreds years after Jesus
​

How could that separate issue be relevant ?

Where is the error ?

and which part it is from the Bible ?

Maybe you cannot grasp that the stories the NT is based on were from possible eyewitnesses to jesus muder.

The OT has many witnesses to some events.

Your book has none at all with history from Judaism or christianty, and you make supernatural claims that carry no credibility at all.

 

[Muslim Atheism]

Provide evidence for the historicity of Abraham, Noah, Moses, Exodus, Queen of Sheba, and we will talk.

Neither can you provide the evidence to disapprove the existence of Abraham, Noah, Moses etc. . .