Is the Religious Right in America gunning for you?

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Here's a rather fascinating point from the Republicans "An 11 Point Plan to Rescue America:"

"We will help low income single women who are considering abortion choose life instead, by paying all costs associated with carrying the child to term and placing the child for adoption."

So, in other words, the party of small government is going to make the government into mommy and daddy, and adoption agency -- and all at taxpayer's expense.

And they'll do that (you'll be fascinated to learn) while putting Social Security and Medicare at grave risk:

"Force Congress to issue a report every year telling the public what they plan to do when Social Security and Medicare go bankrupt."

If anybody fails to see the inconsistency in this, you're not paying attention.

 

[F1fan]

So if you let them live they come out of the womb as what?

I'm not sure why you right wing extremists struggle with 7th grade biology so much. Just read the facts set out in biology and let's debate. You want to use your inaccurate and biased language but we are going to keep you guys honest and accurate. If you can't make your argument with proper terminology then you admit you aren't very confident in your position.

 

[F1fan]

They are the ones defunding the police and releasing criminals back out to continue looting.

False. If you took time away from your right wing disinformation you'd understand that what many communities want to do is use some money spent on policing and do community outreach instead. Too many police show up to mental health situations that they are not trained to deal with and often the police end up shooting and killing these folks. Murdering citizens isn't public service, so they want to make special units to deal with mental health crisis situations, and that IS public service.

Plus Democrats also want to invest in more mental health care for communities, an aim conservatives do not care about. What do conservatives want to do? Force poor mothers to have more babies. Will that impact the stress already experienced in impoverished areas? yes. What plans do republican s have to fix this bigger problem? None I know about. How about you. What solutions to Republicans offer impoverished areas?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You are correct that God being omniscient would have known the outcome.

Then choice can only be an illusion if god knows what will happen. It could not have happened any other way.

The reason that He gave the commandment was not to entice them into evil, but to reveal the fact that humanity following their own desires apart from God’s wisdom were capable of evil.

Let's say I cook a steak and then take it to a room where my dog is. I drop the steak on the floor, tell her she can eat anything she wants but do not eat the steak, and then leave her unattended. I know what's going to happen. I return to find that she has indeed ate the steak, and I punish her for it.
How is this reasonable? Being set up for failure never is, nor is getting angry at those who failed.

 

[F1fan]

Here's a rather fascinating point from the Republicans "An 11 Point Plan to Rescue America:"

"We will help low income single women who are considering abortion choose life instead, by paying all costs associated with carrying the child to term and placing the child for adoption."

So, in other words, the party of small government is going to make the government into mommy and daddy, and adoption agency -- and all at taxpayer's expense.

Well there's your child trafficking, and it isn't Hilary after all, it's the GOP.

And they'll do that (you'll be fascinated to learn) while putting Social Security and Medicare at grave risk:

"Force Congress to issue a report every year telling the public what they plan to do when Social Security and Medicare go bankrupt."

If anybody fails to see the inconsistency in this, you're not paying attention.

Promises, promises.

Let's remember that Alito, Kavenaugh, and Gorsuch said that Roe was settled law, and now we see they were not telling us the truth. Can we trust republicans at face value on important issues?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

What solutions to Republicans offer impoverished areas?

Yank out their cane and hand them a McDonald's application?

 

[F1fan]

If I took a polio vaccine and still got polio I would not be impressed.

the polio vaccine is 99% effective, so you could still be infected. Polio is a virus like Covid and when it gets in the body and starts to replicate it uses the human body as a host and it is too late. the best chance to not get sick from a virus is to limit exposure. the best way to limit exposure to virus is fewer sick people in public. The best way to reduce the number of sick is vaccination. People will still get sick, but less severe and they will spread less virus to others.

You continually fail to understand any of this even though the info is available on your internet.

In this case it's happening to millions of people. Why do people keep defending an inefficient vaccine? Do they have some emotional attachment to it?

The reason polio was eradicated in the USA was because the government made vaccination mandatory for children. This reduced the spread so much that the polio virus had too few hosts to survive. The public health officials in the USA wanted to reach this herd immunity. We never got there, mostly due to disinformation spread by right wing extremists. You are one of these people duped by the right wing extremists. Now you are repeating this disinformation and expose your ignorance even though you could be informed with just 10 minutes of reading from a reputable source.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

........In scripture we see a deity that murders infants babies and pregnant women indiscriminately, even on a global scale, an encourages its human followers to do the same. hardly a sound metric for a moral treatment of anyone.

In Scripture 'parents' are responsible for minor children - 1 Corinthians 7:14
Fornicators and adulterers were put to death.
The unborn who died with the parents in the Flood was by Divine Execution.
In other words, there is a difference between killing, murder and an execution for the sake of justice.
Those immoral violent parents were raising their children to be like them.
Without divine involvement the violent world would have killed off all righteous people.
Any thoughts about Jeremiah 32:35 B; 2 Chronicles 28:3 ____________

 

[Subduction Zone]

If I took a polio vaccine and still got polio I would not be impressed.
In this case it's happening to millions of people. Why do people keep defending an inefficient vaccine? Do they have some emotional attachment to it?

They keep defending it because it save millions of lives.

When you say such terribly ignorant things like "the vaccines don't work" you take yourself out of the debate.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

So what, not everyone has to adhere to archaic religious beliefs because you value them. A price we all pay for living in a democracy is that we sometimes have to hear things we don't like, or even find morally repugnant. You seem to want to sweep democracy away in favour of a theocracy.
And you think that is a moral ethical measured response? That rather says it all.
Poverty often means people have less access to proper medical care, and education, it is hardly a surprise that unwanted pregnancies are one result, do you think a woman should have her rights denied because she is poor? That's an appalling notion I must say, but you have the right to believe it and say so, you just don't have the right to force it onto others.
If you don't want an abortion, then don't have one. If you don't think anyone should have an abortion, then don't help anyone have one. just stop trying to demand others adhere to your beliefs.

A lot of people think the 'Constitution of the Mosaic Law' is archaic and after all it was only temporary for one nation.
Israel was Not a Democracy and yes a Theocracy, but Not the modern-day definition of rule by clergy or clergy class.
I'm Not demanding anyone to adhere to Christianity, but merely informing what the Bible teaches.
We are all created with free-will choices.
Many think whoever is trying to stop an abortion should be held responsible for the care of the unwanted child.

 

[Sand Dancer]

I wasn't implying that morality and self reliance are the same thing.

"To be good moral people who don't need a government safety net."

That is exactly how it sounds. A safety net helps people in dire need. The country with the largest wealth gap needs that type of thing.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Your "scripture" is irrelevant regarding secular law, and are you implying that children born out of wedlock deserve less?

No one is saying regarding ' secular law ' ( No nation today is a biblical theocracy. Only genuine 'wheat' Christians go by Scripture) Secular Law is: values up for grabs.

It is Not about what 'secular law' should be, but rather a moral issue between -> a person and their God.
Back in Pres. Reagan's days he saw the potential in the 1980's to give ' lip service ' to the moral/social agenda.
So, to help win the election he made a moral issue into a political one.
He got the political to advance by using religious means, a 'social gospel' of sorts '?
I do wonder if at this time the now 're-bringing up the abortion issue' is to throw people's minds off what the political really is after this time.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Well there's your child trafficking, and it isn't Hilary after all, it's the GOP. Promises, promises. Let's remember that Alito, Kavenaugh, and Gorsuch said that Roe was settled law, and now we see they were not telling us the truth. Can we trust republicans at face value on important issues?

Please see my post # 592.
Jesus dealt with moral issues Not political. So, genuine Christians would follow in his footsteps, so to speak.
Jesus and his followers were politically neutral and did Not get involved in the issues of the day between Jews and Romans.

 

[InChrist]

False. If you took time away from your right wing disinformation you'd understand that what many communities want to do is use some money spent on policing and do community outreach instead. Too many police show up to mental health situations that they are not trained to deal with and often the police end up shooting and killing these folks. Murdering citizens isn't public service, so they want to make special units to deal with mental health crisis situations, and that IS public service.

Plus Democrats also want to invest in more mental health care for communities, an aim conservatives do not care about. What do conservatives want to do? Force poor mothers to have more babies. Will that impact the stress already experienced in impoverished areas? yes. What plans do republican s have to fix this bigger problem? None I know about. How about you. What solutions to Republicans offer impoverished areas?

You can check out these links to learn what some conservatives or Republicans think will help impoverished communities.


Star Parker - CURE


'Nobody ever asks poor people about their capacity': Bob Woodson offers a hand up through his center - Zenger News


Woodson Center

 

[InChrist]

Then choice can only be an illusion if god knows what will happen. It could not have happened any other way.

Let's say I cook a steak and then take it to a room where my dog is. I drop the steak on the floor, tell her she can eat anything she wants but do not eat the steak, and then leave her unattended. I know what's going to happen. I return to find that she has indeed ate the steak, and I punish her for it.
How is this reasonable? Being set up for failure never is, nor is getting angry at those who failed.

The big difference is that humans aren’t dogs. According to the Bible, God made humans in His image with intellect, the ability to comprehend, to reason, to communicate and use language.
True, it was inevitable that Adam and Eve would sin by their selfish choice, but that cannot be blamed upon their Creator. If they were to be free and able to love and be loved, this is the way it had to be. They had to be given the opportunity to choose. God demonstrated His love for them, communicated with them, and shared His wisdom.

What loving parent whose child dies of an overdose of drugs, or in a car wreck caused by speeding under the influence of alcohol, or in the electric chair for murder, or is confined to prison for life wanted that to happen?
Most tragic of all is that even though a child has been well taught and warned they may still reject wisdom, choose wrongly, and self-destruct.

God knew from the very beginning what was going to happen. He was not taking a risk by creating beings with the power of choice—He knew they would rebel against Him. There would be billions who would need to be redeemed and who would each have to choose between self and God. He knew that there was only one way for them to be redeemed from sin and the penalty they would bring upon themselves: His “only begotten Son” (Jn:3:16), the Son of His love, must come to this earth as a man and die in their place, paying the full penalty. When Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me” (Jn:14:6), He was explaining the entire situation from eternity past to eternity in the endless future. Jesus alone could be the way back to God. This is the way it had to be.

 

[F1fan]

You can check out these links to learn what some conservatives or Republicans think will help impoverished communities.


Star Parker - CURE


'Nobody ever asks poor people about their capacity': Bob Woodson offers a hand up through his center - Zenger News


Woodson Center

I notice they are minorities. The first woman you cite grew up in poverty so has first hand understanding of the need. I don't see white, male republicans showing any signs of interest in what these folks do. I don't see republicans promote policies that will help impoverished people nationally. I don't see any help in healthcare for the poor.

It's great you found some conservatives who help those in need, but they don't represent the majority of republicans today.

 

[F1fan]

Please see my post # 592.
Jesus dealt with moral issues Not political. So, genuine Christians would follow in his footsteps, so to speak.
Jesus and his followers were politically neutral and did Not get involved in the issues of the day between Jews and Romans.

Well the world is different than 2000 years ago. And frankly I don't see many conservative Christians following Jesus in any way.

And I don't buy the whole morals and politics is different claim. Look at the Old Testament, it is chocked full of political law, all authorized by God. Jesus' whole message was how the self deals with itself and how it relates to others regardless of politics. The thing is in the USA our morals do drive our political decisions. Its just that republican s and the right has such bad morals and ethics. Look at the popularity of trump, that is all you need to know about the failed moral beliefs of the right.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The big difference is that humans aren’t dogs. According to the Bible, God made humans in His image with intellect, the ability to comprehend, to reason, to communicate and use language.
True, it was inevitable that Adam and Eve would sin by their selfish choice, but that cannot be blamed upon their Creator. If they were to be free and able to love and be loved, this is the way it had to be. They had to be given the opportunity to choose. God demonstrated His love for them, communicated with them, and shared His wisdom.

What loving parent whose child dies of an overdose of drugs, or in a car wreck caused by speeding under the influence of alcohol, or in the electric chair for murder, or is confined to prison for life wanted that to happen?
Most tragic of all is that even though a child has been well taught and warned they may still reject wisdom, choose wrongly, and self-destruct.

God knew from the very beginning what was going to happen. He was not taking a risk by creating beings with the power of choice—He knew they would rebel against Him. There would be billions who would need to be redeemed and who would each have to choose between self and God. He knew that there was only one way for them to be redeemed from sin and the penalty they would bring upon themselves: His “only begotten Son” (Jn:3:16), the Son of His love, must come to this earth as a man and die in their place, paying the full penalty. When Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me” (Jn:14:6), He was explaining the entire situation from eternity past to eternity in the endless future. Jesus alone could be the way back to God. This is the way it had to be.

You keep forgetting how God screwed the pooch in that myth. If you read it they did not know right from wrong. The dog has a better knowledge of right and wrong then Adam and Eve did.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The big difference is that humans aren’t dogs. According to the Bible, God made humans in His image with intellect, the ability to comprehend, to reason, to communicate and use language.

Those intellect and reason and communication things all require knowledge of good and evil or it's so stunted that it would be childlike.

God knew from the very beginning what was going to happen.

Then he's cruel and let it happen when it didn't have to. And if he knew it was going to happen, his design was corrupt and flawed from the start.
Which is rather starting, for as illogical and inconsistent that Christianity is, the Religious Right thinks they have the answers and we all need to turn to their Jesus amd be washed. They want to say something like homosexuality is unnatural, but they refuse to acknowledge how introducing free will does not and cannot work with a being who already knows what will happen. It would be no different than if an electric current thought it freely chose where to go even though we can very well describe the whys and hows of the flow of electricity.
If the outcome is known and determined ahead of time this is called determinism and it is the antithesis of free will.

 

[Sheldon]

They are still trying for a "better vaccine". Meanwhile the ones that we have do work. You only keep demonstrating that you do not understand what vaccines do.

In your mind, what does a working vaccine do? By the way, if you cannot support your claims properly then you have only proven that you do not "know" which I am sure is the case, you only believe.

The efficacy of the vaccines have been explained to him, so claiming ignorance as an excuse is no longer a viable option, if indeed it ever was.

The vaccines have saved countless lives, and brought health care institution back from the brink of collapse. Sadly the same superstitious ignorance that opposed vaccines that eradicated horrendous diseases like polio and small pox, is being peddled here again.