Is the Religious Right in America gunning for you?

[URAVIP2ME]

Well it's a good thing that many Christians cherry pick what they want to follow, and what you value is ignored by other Christians. This is how Christians can do all sorts of immoral things and get away with it. Plus, we live in a secular society so scripture is irrelevant to the law. Of course right wing extremists are trying to change this, meaning we are moving towards an authoritarian theocracy with fewer liberties.

Yes, there are both: genuine 'wheat' Christians and the fake 'weed/tares' Christians as Jesus taught.
The 1st-century secular Roman society did Not go by Jewish religious law in Israel.
That is why those un-faithful Jews needed the Romans to do their dirty work to get Jesus executed.
Fake 'weed/tares' Christians can try to change secular law but will bring 'Caesar's law down on themselves.
The definition of modern-day theocracy is rule or govern by clergy or clergy class.
That is Not the theocracy ( Thy Kingdom come... ) that Jesus taught about.
It won't be long before present so-called modern religious systems will end but Not on their own.
Surprisingly the political will turn on the religious world.
That will prove to be the precursor to the coming great tribulation.

 

[F1fan]

If you infect a mother and newborn with Covid due to your lack of vaccination are you guiltless of their deaths? Was it their choice to be exposed to Covid by a careless person?

In Scripture -> Jesus and his followers were: politically neutral. No political ties. ( Nothing to hide there ).
The using of politics has been a 'false clergy tactic' who to try to throne or dethrone kings (political rulers).
Jesus taught his kingdom, his government is Not part of this world ( Not part of the political world ).
Remember: Jesus said MANY would come in his name but prove false at Matthew 7:21-23.
The political will topple the religious world so why would a follower of Jesus want to be part of a toppled world?
By surprise the powers in charge will turn on the religious world as per 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3.
When the powers in charge are saying, " Peace and Security...." that will prove to be the precursor to the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14,9.
So, religion with political ties will come to their final end.

So you disagree with the Christians in the Republican party using Christian morals in trying to ban reproductive rights for female citizens?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

So you disagree with the Christians in the Republican party using Christian morals in trying to ban reproductive rights for female citizens?

Since Jesus was politically neutral, then there are No genuine Christians in any political party.
Abortion is a 'moral issue' between the person and God.
Seems that the timing of this issue is a distraction of some sort off what the political is really up to. Just a guess.

 

[Subduction Zone]

So you disagree with the Christians in the Republican party using Christian morals in trying to ban reproductive rights for female citizens?

I would not say that those are "Christian morals". The Republican Party saw the right to life movement as a political tool. They are very strong one issue voters. By adopting an anti-abortion plank they could guarantee a steady stream of votes. Before Roe v Wade even the Southern Baptist church had articles in their magazine that said that abortion was a moral choice of the mother, and sometimes the right thing to do. The churches joined in and as a result much of the Republican party marches lockstep with the evangelicals. In the US a strong majority, 61% favor legalized abortion.

Even when I was a Republican I was pro-choice. I did not take the Republican's claims to seriously since they really were not pushing that hard for an over turn. But it took only two Presidents to accomplish this Bush and Trump. Neither one was the brightest bulb in the box. They all but guaranteed a Democratic victory this fall and probably reelected Biden since their Supreme Court judges did what they promised not to.

At any rate there was a range of opinion about abortion among US Christians and there still is one.

 

[F1fan]

Since Jesus was politically neutral, then there are No genuine Christians in any political party.
Abortion is a 'moral issue' between the person and God.
Seems that the timing of this issue is a distraction of some sort off what the political is really up to. Just a guess.

So you think Christians can't be political at all? And anyone involved in politics can't be a genuine Christian?

 

[F1fan]

I would not say that those are "Christian morals". The Republican Party saw the right to life movement as a political tool. They are very strong one issue voters. By adopting an anti-abortion plank they could guarantee a steady stream of votes. Before Roe v Wade even the Southern Baptist church had articles in their magazine that said that abortion was a moral choice of the mother, and sometimes the right thing to do. The churches joined in and as a result much of the Republican party marches lockstep with the evangelicals. In the US a strong majority, 61% favor legalized abortion.

I argue it became a political tool of republicans because they could exploit the religiosity of evangelicals. Anti-abortion as an issue was a Catholic movement and Protestants weren't interested until the Moral Majority made it a huge social and political campaign. And Falwell and Graham jumped on board, and Reagan was the political intermediary.

Even when I was a Republican I was pro-choice. I did not take the Republican's claims to seriously since they really were not pushing that hard for an over turn. But it took only two Presidents to accomplish this Bush and Trump. Neither one was the brightest bulb in the box. They all but guaranteed a Democratic victory this fall and probably reelected Biden since their Supreme Court judges did what they promised not to.

It's hard to know if the GOP ever really thought Roe would be overturned. My guess is they wouldn't. But I suggest that was because politics through the 80-90's was still quite reputable with the GOP honoring the process of governing. It wasn't until Obama that the Tea Party began to push extreme into the mainstream and loud mouth extremists becoming prominent politicians, which Trump being the most powerful and least ethical. The dog caught the car. Now what?

At any rate there was a range of opinion about abortion among US Christians and there still is one.

The GOP is becoming superb at leadership from the minority.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I argue it became a political tool of republicans because they could exploit the religiosity of evangelicals. Anti-abortion as an issue was a Catholic movement and Protestants weren't interested until the Moral Majority made it a huge social and political campaign. And Falwell and Graham jumped on board, and Reagan was the political intermediary.


It's hard to know if the GOP ever really thought Roe would be overturned. My guess is they wouldn't. But I suggest that was because politics through the 80-90's was still quite reputable with the GOP honoring the process of governing. It wasn't until Obama that the Tea Party began to push extreme into the mainstream and loud mouth extremists becoming prominent politicians, which Trump being the most powerful and least ethical. The dog caught the car. Now what?


The GOP is becoming superb at leadership from the minority.

Yes, the GOP is good at turning a minority into a perceived majority. They do that largely by appealing to single issue voters. They get a very high voter turnout by using the extremist views of their followers. Both you and I have pointed out that the dog has caught the car. What does the dog do? It takes its victory home and goes to sleep. How many of those anti abortion voters are going to feel the urge to vote for someone whose name they cannot remember?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

So you think Christians can't be political at all? And anyone involved in politics can't be a genuine Christian?

Jesus set the example and at John 17:14-16 to be No part of the world, the world hates Christians - Matthew 10:22; Luke 21:17
Hated by all does Not mean just by enemy nations.
Think too if the voting process worked it would have worked by now instead we see conflict.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Jesus set the example and at John 17:14-16 to be No part of the world, the world hates Christians - Matthew 10:22; Luke 21:17
Hated by all does Not mean just by enemy nations.
Think too if the voting process worked it would have worked by now instead we see conflict.

E

This is an example of something being in the Bible that is quite often false. Of course you may apply a No True Scotsman fallacy to this. But that only invites one in return.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

I don’t think the scriptures portray them as toddlers. instead, we are told God gave them dominion over the earth and they were to practice good stewardship. They spent time in fellowship with God each day. Surely God shared information, instruction, and wisdom with them and they were intelligent to understand disobedience and distrusting God was wrong. Besides, God made it simple; just one tree to avoid and He explained the consequences.

Not toddlers. If you are familiar with child development, I would suggest that they are at least mentally seven. Kids that age fixate on categories and Adam is just sitting around naming stuff. Eve isn’t given a job. This doesn’t take adult functioning.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Not toddlers. If you are familiar with child development, I would suggest that they are at least mentally seven. Kids that age fixate on categories and Adam is just sitting around naming stuff. Eve isn’t given a job. This doesn’t take adult functioning.

Eve comes after Adam's naming job.
Adam could easily been 30 years of age before being introduced to Eve.
We don't know how long, how much time had passed, before Eve chose to break God's law.

 

[F1fan]

Yes, the GOP is good at turning a minority into a perceived majority. They do that largely by appealing to single issue voters. They get a very high voter turnout by using the extremist views of their followers. Both you and I have pointed out that the dog has caught the car. What does the dog do? It takes its victory home and goes to sleep. How many of those anti abortion voters are going to feel the urge to vote for someone whose name they cannot remember?

If Roe is overturned my guess is the anti-abortion folks will turn their focus on the states where it is still legal. That will certainly keep their interest fired up. Plus, it may be easier because they can point to these "evil democrat run states are killing babies" and have them to attack. I don't think they will stop. What i think will hurt them after "catching the car" will be the long term consequences, which may include botched abortions, too many unwatered babies, babies with serious medical problems in hospitals, mental health crisis needs that won't be available, and demand for more aid to poor families. This may not happen given abortion services are still available, but ban states may see more of these problems. If republicans get majorities in Congress for 2022 and pass a national ban (after they eliminate the filibuster) the USA could see serious problems develop before the 2024 elections and that might hurt republicans.

 

[F1fan]

Jesus set the example and at John 17:14-16 to be No part of the world, the world hates Christians - Matthew 10:22; Luke 21:17
Hated by all does Not mean just by enemy nations.
Think too if the voting process worked it would have worked by now instead we see conflict.

Well first, few Christians actually follow Jesus on most of what he says. Second, Christians aren't Jesus anyway, and Christians live in the real world, they need to take part. Third, if the whole point of living in the here and now is to die some day and go to heaven, just get it over with if you aren't going to be responsible for your part of a secular society and its management.

Let's note, you are engaging with us in these discussions, and politics is just discussing how to manage ourselves (it should be, if many weren't more into power and games than public service) and coming to a compromise and solutions. There is nothing wrong in this.

 

[Subduction Zone]

If Roe is overturned my guess is the anti-abortion folks will turn their focus on the states where it is still legal. That will certainly keep their interest fired up. Plus, it may be easier because they can point to these "evil democrat run states are killing babies" and have them to attack. I don't think they will stop. What i think will hurt them after "catching the car" will be the long term consequences, which may include botched abortions, too many unwatered babies, babies with serious medical problems in hospitals, mental health crisis needs that won't be available, and demand for more aid to poor families. This may not happen given abortion services are still available, but ban states may see more of these problems. If republicans get majorities in Congress for 2022 and pass a national ban (after they eliminate the filibuster) the USA could see serious problems develop before the 2024 elections and that might hurt republicans.

We will see. What i predict will happen is that the solidly red states with a strong antiabortion contingent will make abortions illegal in their states quickly. There will not be nearly enough true zealots to push for it nationwide since their minority status is rather obvious. But making abortion illegal in states in some states is only going to increase the strength of the opposition. Once again this is not a tiny majority. In politics a 60 to 40 percent difference is huge. This is going to be one car that those dogs will be very very sorry that they caught.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Eve comes after Adam's naming job.
Adam could easily been 30 years of age before being introduced to Eve.
We don't know how long, how much time had passed, before Eve chose to break God's law.

I thought that this thread was about politics and not fan fiction. What do you think about the various different versions of Spiderman?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Well first, few Christians actually follow Jesus on most of what he says. Second, Christians aren't Jesus anyway, and Christians live in the real world, they need to take part. Third, if the whole point of living in the here and now is to die some day and go to heaven, just get it over with if you aren't going to be responsible for your part of a secular society and its management.
Let's note, you are engaging with us in these discussions, and politics is just discussing how to manage ourselves (it should be, if many weren't more into power and games than public service) and coming to a compromise and solutions. There is nothing wrong in this.

Yes, the fake 'weed/tares' Christians do Not follow Jesus. They are the MANY of Matthew 7:21-23; Matthew 13:29-30.
Right, Christians are Not Jesus, but Jesus and his 1st-century followers lived in the real world.
The whole point ( God's purpose of Genesis 1:28 ) is Not Heaven but a forever on Earth.
To be 'responsible for one's part' is to do as Jesus instructed to do at Matthew 24:14; Acts of the Apostles 1:8.
If voting worked it would have worked by now. Instead we usually see a 50/50 split among voters. Division.
To compromise would even divide the 'international Christian brotherhood' by Not being neutral.
Remember: genuine 'wheat' Christians live all over the Earth in all different countries and islands.
Jesus and his 1st-century followers were Not divided, Not divided and polarized as would be with taking sides.
Nationalism promotes taking sides and divides and at times those in the secular promote their form of government as being superior to God's standards. God's standard is: by not favoring one candidate or political party over another.
Rather, Jesus stressed the paying of taxes and showing due honor to ones in authority.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yes, the fake 'weed/tares' Christians do Not follow Jesus. They are the MANY of Matthew 7:21-23; Matthew 13:29-30.
Right, Christians are Not Jesus, but Jesus and his 1st-century followers lived in the real world.
The whole point ( God's purpose of Genesis 1:28 ) is Not Heaven but a forever on Earth.
To be 'responsible for one's part' is to do as Jesus instructed to do at Matthew 24:14; Acts of the Apostles 1:8.
If voting worked it would have worked by now. Instead we usually see a 50/50 split among voters. Division.
To compromise would even divide the 'international Christian brotherhood' by Not being neutral.
Remember: genuine 'wheat' Christians live all over the Earth in all different countries and islands.
Jesus and his 1st-century followers were Not divided, Not divided and polarized as would be with taking sides.
Nationalism promotes taking sides and divides and at times those in the secular promote their form of government as being superior to God's standards. God's standard is: by not favoring one candidate or political party over another.
Rather, Jesus stressed the paying of taxes and showing due honor to ones in authority.

Sorry, but that is just a No True Scotsman fallacy unless you can prove that you are not a "tare".

And remember what the Bible says about judging others.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

So you disagree with the Christians in the Republican party using Christian morals in trying to ban reproductive rights for female citizens?

God gifted all with free-will moral choices to make.
God is Not forcing anyone to go by or live by Christian moral standards. That is a personal matter or decision.
Not a political decision but a moral issue decision to be made between a person and God.
Now, if the government was forcing abortions then the Christian would obey God as ruler over man - Acts 5:29.
In other words, Christians to obey ' Caesar' as long as Caesar's Law does Not require sinning against God.
The secular world might judge God's standards as to what is right or wrong, but a Christian does Not need to judge God's standards because they are already written down in God's Word.

 

[Subduction Zone]

God gifted all with free-will moral choices to make.
God is Not forcing anyone to go by or live by Christian moral standards. That is a personal matter or decision.
Not a political decision but a moral issue decision to be made between a person and God.
Now, if the government was forcing abortions then the Christian would obey God as ruler over man - Acts 5:29.
In other words, Christians to obey ' Caesar' as long as Caesar's Law does Not require sinning against God.
The secular world might judge God's standards as to what is right or wrong, but a Christian does Not need to judge God's standards because they are already written down in God's Word.

Okay, that sounds like a reasonable answer to his question. Personally I do not believe that abortions break God's laws either. But you appear to have a different interpretation of the Bible.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

A lot of people think the 'Constitution of the Mosaic Law' is archaic and after all it was only temporary for one nation.
Israel was Not a Democracy and yes a Theocracy, but Not the modern-day definition of rule by clergy or clergy class.
I'm Not demanding anyone to adhere to Christianity, but merely informing what the Bible teaches.
We are all created with free-will choices.
Many think whoever is trying to stop an abortion should be held responsible for the care of the unwanted child.

Do you believe that we should base our laws on a country that got wiped off the map after splitting in a civil war?