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Is the universe infinite or finite?
- Thread starter firedragon
- Start date
firedragon
Veteran Member
Very good response. Kudos.
Ben Dhyan
Veteran Member
Ok, according to this study, the universe is not flat but appears to be a closed sphere.
Planck evidence for a closed Universe and a possible crisis for cosmology | Nature Astronomy
When they say a closed sphere, does it mean there is space everywhere within the volume of the universal sphere?
So another question is, in either model, a closed sphere or flat (whatever overall shape flat is,
open of closed?), is a Hubble Sphere volume the most space we can actually observe?
In the flat model, a Hubble Sphere space volume must fit within the flat thickness, yes?
Planck evidence for a closed Universe and a possible crisis for cosmology | Nature Astronomy
When they say a closed sphere, does it mean there is space everywhere within the volume of the universal sphere?
So another question is, in either model, a closed sphere or flat (whatever overall shape flat is,
open of closed?), is a Hubble Sphere volume the most space we can actually observe?
In the flat model, a Hubble Sphere space volume must fit within the flat thickness, yes?
Dropship
Member
Topic title- Is the universe infinite or finite?
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Well if it began as the Big Bang and started expanding like explosions do, its furthest edge (which is still expanding) must be finite, and everything beyond that edge must be a totally empty "void"
We could therefore regarding the universe as an "expanding bubble" in a void of nothingness.
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Well if it began as the Big Bang and started expanding like explosions do, its furthest edge (which is still expanding) must be finite, and everything beyond that edge must be a totally empty "void"
We could therefore regarding the universe as an "expanding bubble" in a void of nothingness.
That is nonsensical. Once you given "void" substance, it has become a "thing." Therefore, there's a "thing" that exist outside of the universe.
ratiocinator
Lightly seared on the reality grill.
Which is a total misunderstanding of the big bang theory. It was not an explosion, it was not the expansion of stuff into a pre-existing space or a 'void'. It refers the the expansion of space itself. In other words, if two objects are far enough apart (scales greater than galaxy clusters) to have almost no interaction, then the distance between them increases.
If we project this backwards, we end up with a very hot and very dense state. It does not tell us if space is infinite or finite. However, since space appears to be 'flat', and the simplest topology associated with flat space would also make it infinite, there is at least a hint that it might be.
However, it remains an open question - we don't know.
Dropship
Member
Well if scientists don't know and you don't know, my "bubble in the void" theory is as good as anybody elses..
ratiocinator
Lightly seared on the reality grill.
Well if scientists don't know, my "bubble in the void" theory is as good as theirs and anybody elses..
No. The question of whether the universe is infinite or not is open, not the question of whether it is space expanding, as I said, or your idea about stuff expanding into space. We have plentiful evidence that tells us this.
You also don't seem to understand what a 'theory' is, in the context of science. Your 'bubble' idea is not a theory.
Dropship
Member
But "void" means "nothingness" in which there is- nothing..
For examp Beverley Crusher was once trapped on the Enterprise after everybody had disappeared and the universe was closing in on the ship, and she asked the computer what was the diameter of the universe, and it replied something like "X feet", beyond which there was nothing, no stars or anything else, ie a "void"
ratiocinator
Lightly seared on the reality grill.
But "void" means "nothingness" in which there is- nothing..
Space is not nothing. You can't have a void without space.
Science fiction is not science.
Dropship
Member
Alright call it a speculation..
Without speculations, guesses and hunches there'd be a lot of blank pages in discussion forums.
Dropship
Member
ratiocinator
Lightly seared on the reality grill.
Alright call it a speculation..
Without speculations, guesses and hunches there'd be a lot of blank pages in discussion forums.
Doesn't change the fact that science actually has a well tested theory that fits the evidence and you have nothing but a baseless story that doesn't.
Dropship
Member
But mate you said earlier-..."..it remains an open question - we don't know.."
Are you now saying scientists do know?
But "void" means "nothingness" in which there is- nothing..
For examp Beverley Crusher was once trapped on the Enterprise after everybody had disappeared and the universe was closing in on the ship, and she asked the computer what was the diameter of the universe, and it replied something like "X feet", beyond which there was nothing, no stars or anything else, ie a "void"
Once you given "nothing" substance, it has become a "thing." Therefore, there's a "thing" that exist outside of the universe, which you called, "nothing."
ratiocinator
Lightly seared on the reality grill.
This isn't complicated. We do know (we have very good evidence) that it's space that's expanding and not stuff expanding into a 'void', we don't know if space is infinite or finite.
Dropship
Member
Incidentally, scientists said for years that the universe was expanding, but more recently they're saying the rate of expansion is slowing down and might lead to a 'Big Crunch' when it finally stops expanding and collapses back in on itself.
Wish they'd make their minds up..
ratiocinator
Lightly seared on the reality grill.
Incidentally, scientists said for years that the universe was expanding, but more recently they're saying the rate of expansion is slowing down and might lead to a 'Big Crunch' when it finally stops expanding and collapses back in on itself.
Wish they'd make their minds up..
Actually, the expansion is speeding up. The reason we change the view is called 'more evidence'. The is a rational, evidence based investigation, not religious dogma.
Dropship
Member
Science fiction is not science.
Ah but quite often todays sci-fi is tomorrows sci-fact..
Anyway most sci-fi films and shows are thought-provoking by exploring various themes.
ratiocinator
Lightly seared on the reality grill.
Ah but quite often todays sci-fi is tomorrows sci-fact..
Vary rarely.
Sometimes. The best sci-fi is rarely filmed or made into TV because it requires people to think too much or grasp too many complex ideas. You'll only get that in books.
Regardless, on this occasion, we have actual evidence for the current theories in cosmology and your storytelling doesn't fit with it.