Dropship
Member
There's hope for Dawkins yet..-
1- Christians don't do "fib"-
Jesus said- "Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.” (John 18:37)
2- All the truckloads of evidence points to the fact Jesus existed..
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Is the universe infinite or finite?
- Thread starter firedragon
- Start date
1- Christians don't do "fib"-
Jesus said- "Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.” (John 18:37)
2- All the truckloads of evidence points to the fact Jesus existed..
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
So you cannot be honest in the same way that Dawkins was. And no, the evidence for Jesus existing is rather weak.1- Christians don't do "fib"-
Jesus said- "Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.” (John 18:37)
2- All the truckloads of evidence points to the fact Jesus existed..
ratiocinator
Lightly seared on the reality grill.
What's 'fib' got to do with being honest about not being 100% certain? I also take it that you are not prepared to be that honest.
Why is it that some theists think that quoting their 'holy' books at people is going to impress anybody who doesn't already share their faith in said books. You might as well quote from Alice in Wonderland as far as I'm concerned.
ratiocinator
Lightly seared on the reality grill.
2- All the truckloads of evidence points to the fact Jesus existed..
But none of the fantastical stories told about him in the bible.
Dropship
Member
The Bible is a fascinating historical chronicle of human encounters with off-world beings over thousands of years..
ratiocinator
Lightly seared on the reality grill.
The Bible is a fascinating historical chronicle of human encounters with off-world beings over thousands of years..
You do like evidence-free assertions, don't you?
Wouldn't have it any other way. Inerrant holy books are for the superstitious. Rational people prefer actual evidence and are prepared to change their views if new evidence comes to light.
gnostic
The Lost One
I think Dawkins (like all scientists) has the God-given gift of curiosity about life and the universe, wanting to get everything neatly explained.
That's great because it advances human knowledge and long may they continue.
But the downside for them is that because they can't scientifically explain religion, they feel uncomfortable with it and many of them attack it, e.g.-
View attachment 56112
Personally i suppose I could call myself a scientist because at school I got College of Preceptors exam passes in General Science and Advanced Science and went on to work in labs.
However far from dismissing religion, I became fascinated with it, notably Jesus's 37 miracles which I regard as a "Superscience" that we know nothing about..
He said- "I am not of this world ...though you do not believe me, believe the miracles...." (John 8:23,John 10:38)
Regarding what I highlighted in bold red, above.
That showed us, you have absolutely no idea WHAT SCIENCE IS.
Science, especially Natural Sciences, or Physical sciences, or empirical sciences, are all about knowledges (eg explanations) that can be tested (eg observations, evidence, experiments, data).
This knowledge in explanatory model (eg “scientific theory”) are based on observed phenomena and on the observed physical processes. So a theory, must contained detailed explanations that answer the following vital questions:
- WHAT the phenomena or process is?
- HOW does phenomena or process work?
- WHAT applications the phenomena may have?
- HOW would you make it work?
Sciences are about learning and understanding what we don’t know (yet), followed by making use of what we have learned.
For instance, learning about electricity in physics, have various countless applications, eg technology, engineering, etc.
Nothing in those miracles that Jesus and his disciples performed, being describe in the gospels, have any use for the average person. Nothing in the gospels show how to perform each and every miracles that Jesus have done.
For instances. Even if you are devout Christian, believe in god, in Jesus and in the gospels, like:
- Can heal people Jesus did?
- Can you bring the dead back to life, as Jesus did?
- Can you walk on water?
- Can you turn water into wine?
Adding the superfluous to science, like this “Superscience”, is just nothing more than silly propaganda.
There is no such thing as “superscience”. And it is absurd and pathetic that you would even bring it up.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Actually it doesn't. The Bible is younger than you think it is and quite a bit of it is myth. For example all of Genesis and Exodus are thought to be myth these days.The Bible is a fascinating historical chronicle of human encounters with off-world beings over thousands of years..
View attachment 56117
Dropship
Member
Here's another Dawkins quote from 'Climbing Mt Improbable'-
“My guess is that both bats and birds evolved flight by gliding downwards from the trees" p 113/14
Note he calls it a "guess"..
Anyway it makes no sense to think that animals hurled themselves out of trees and got splatted before they miraculously sprouted wings.
“My guess is that both bats and birds evolved flight by gliding downwards from the trees" p 113/14
Note he calls it a "guess"..
Anyway it makes no sense to think that animals hurled themselves out of trees and got splatted before they miraculously sprouted wings.
Dropship
Member
But mate, as I pointed out in another post somewhere, at school I got College of Preceptors exam passes in General Science and Advanced Science, and went on to work in labs and can boast that-
"I am become death, shatterer of worlds"..
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
But he did ot claim anything miraculous. Since you have far less understanding of evolution than scientists do you will lose any such debates that you enter. It is far better to try to learn what you are arguing against.Here's another Dawkins quote from 'Climbing Mt Improbable'-
“My guess is that both bats and birds evolved flight by gliding downwards from the trees" p 113/14
Note he calls it a "guess"..
Anyway it makes no sense to think that animals hurled themselves out of trees and got splatted before they miraculously sprouted wings.
Tell me, since the Bible only supports a Flat Earth do you believe that the Earth is Flat?
ratiocinator
Lightly seared on the reality grill.
Here's another Dawkins quote from 'Climbing Mt Improbable'-
“My guess is that both bats and birds evolved flight by gliding downwards from the trees" p 113/14
Note he calls it a "guess"..
When we don't have enough evidence to deduce a particular path in evolution, we are indeed left with speculation, so making a few guesses (and he points to a number of possibilities) in a popular science book is fine.
It doesn't lead to even the tiniest dent in the mountains of evidence for evolution.
Which was never the claim, as you'd know if you'd read the book (the quote above is a slight misquote that seems to have come from a creationist review of the book, not the book itself - which I have in front of me).
Dropship
Member
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Sorry, you are reinterpreting a verse that supports either case and are ignoring verses such as this one:
8 He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the Lord's, and he hath set the world upon them.
The pillars of the Earth are mentioned several times.
Job 9 6 Isaiah 24 18 Psalm 75 3
EDIT:
Or if you can handle the TRUTH:
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Dropship
Member
Thanks, I gave away my copy of CMI long ago but if whoever wrote that quote on the net substituted "guess" for "perhaps" it means he's a liar and not a true christian-
"Ignorant people distort things.." (2 Pet 3:16/17)
However this online CMI seems correct-
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Dropship
Member
..or the pillars of the earth are the Lord's, and he hath set the world upon them.
The pillars of the Earth are mentioned several times.
I don't see no pillars in that pic, but you could be onto something..
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Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Wow! You appear to be claiming that quite a few creationists are not true Christians™.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
It helps to write something when you quote someone.
Dropship
Member
If anybody deliberately distorts stuff (whether theyre creationists or atheists or anybody else) it means they're certainly not christians, and when they arrive at the pearlies Jesus will bust their asses..
Jesus said:-"Not all who call me "Lord,Lord" will enter the kingdom of heaven. Then I'll tell them plainly, I never knew you, get away from me" (Matt 7:21-23)
ratiocinator
Lightly seared on the reality grill.
No (to be fair) - he does use the word 'guess' several times.
For the record - from the book:-
"My guess is that both bats and pterosaurs evolved flight by gliding downwards from trees or cliffs. Their ancestors, at one stage, might have looked a little like colugos.
Birds could be another matter."
From the creationist review:-
"My guess is that both bats and birds evolved flight by gliding downwards from the trees. Their ancestors might have looked a little like colugos. Birds could be another matter."
As I said, it's a fairly minor misquote, especially for a creationist site, and also because he does go on to concede that the same might be true of birds (as well as bats and pterosaurs).