Is the US evil now , or was the US ever good?

[Twilight Hue]

Was the institution of the United States good for the world, or would it have been better if the US had never existed at all?

Just curious on opinions pro or con.

Discuss/ debate

 

[Stevicus]

Was the institution of the United States good for the world, or would it have been better if the US had never existed at all?

Just curious on opinions pro or con.

Discuss/ debate

My guess would be that if the U.S. didn't exist, something else would have existed in its place. The world would have been different, but whether it would have been "good" or "better" is impossible to say. It would probably be somewhat the same, not much better or worse, than it is now.

 

[Heyo]

Was the institution of the United States good for the world, or would it have been better if the US had never existed at all?

Just curious on opinions pro or con.

Discuss/ debate

A wide and complex field, so just as a gist, the US was never "good". It was at times better than most of the rest of the world and at other times the crimes weren't widely known so the US seemed to be better than other countries.

 

[Estro Felino]

It's a fact that the United States were founded by British colonizers who rose against the motherland and created a country based upon freedom, equality, justice. They have become, in an era of great changes the beacon of the Western Civilization.
La Fayette who stormed the Bastille in 1789 had been in the US.

The United States government was slowly taken over by plutocratic élites who eroded, slowly and inexorably, the American citizens' freedoms.

Just think of the Jekyll Island Club and what they did in 1910.
They stole the monetary sovereignty from the people.

So...please...let's distinguish the commoners from the élites.
It's the élites who do bad things behind the people's back.

And it's not the American citizens who need to be held accountable for things done by very few people, behind the scenes...
who come out with the favor of darkness...

 

[sun rise]

Was the institution of the United States good for the world, or would it have been better if the US had never existed at all?

Just curious on opinions pro or con.

Discuss/ debate

The US today is neither evil nor good. To me it's more properly characterized as an adolescent which is growing into its full potential while doing things which some might characterize as good or bad.

 

[Soandso]

Eh... it's weird to use "good" and "bad" when chocking up an entire nation given it's historical highs and lows up to present day. This country has done good things, and it's done terrible things. I'd say it's neither and instead, like every other nation out there, is interested in expanding it's own power and influence

America does have a more stable system of checks and balances than many other countries, so that curbs some of the more egregious cases of corruption when compared to other countries. I would say this is a good thing. Those with money and power are always seeking to weather away those checks and balances, though, and it seems like they are slowly winning if drastic action isn't taken - so that's not great

As for if it's a good place to live? I like where I live. I wouldn't enjoy living in a place like Alabama or Oklahoma, but moving is always an option thanks to open state lines. It can be difficult moving from a poorer state to one with a higher cost of living, but the possibility is there for those who are determined

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Was the institution of the United States good for the world, or would it have been better if the US had never existed at all?

Just curious on opinions pro or con.

Discuss/ debate

To be quite honest, I have mixed feelings about the United States. This country was, after all, founded on forcibly taken land (Manifest Destiny), and its government violated hundreds of legal treaties that were established with the indigenous tribes. These tribes were either forcibly removed from their tribal lands or they were killed, and many of their children were forcibly taken and placed in Christian boarding schools with the sole purpose of stripping them of their culture and assimilation ("Kill the Indian, save the man"). American Indians were also denied citizenship until 1924 and religious freedom until 1978. The enslavement of African men, women, and children was rampant at the time of this country's founding, and slavery was woven into the Constitution (the Three-Fifths Clause). Furthermore, slavery was legal in this country from 1776 to 1865, and yes, there was a Civil War that brought an end to legalized slavery, but the atrocious injustice of discrimination and legalized segregation of African-Americans (separate but equal) wasn't addressed until the Civil Rights Act in 1964 and the Voting Rights Act in 1965. I'd also like to mention that women were also denied the right to vote until 1920.

And all of this injustice and heinous atrocities against minorities occurred in a country that boasts "freedom, liberty, and justice for all" and also has this profound proclamation dating back before its founding: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" (Preamble to the Declaration of Independence).

Finally, the United States of America is 247 years old, and yet there has only been one president in its entire history who is not an old white man. I'm sorry if saying this sounds prejudicial against white men and white people in general, but please know that is not my intent. I can't find the words to explain why this bothers me, but it does. It also bothers me that before Kamala Harris was sworn in as Vice President by our current President Joe Biden, the highest-ranking position in the U.S. government held by a woman was the former Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi. To be honest, I don't love America, but I don't hate it either. I'm not indifferent to it, though, because I'm troubled by its violent racist history and the political turmoil festering in national politics, as well as all the other problems plaguing the nation. Do I believe America is good or evil? My answer is both, because during its 247-year history, it has been good and evil. We, the people of the United States of America, have the potential to do good for the world and the potential to seriously harm it.

 

[PureX]

Was the institution of the United States good for the world, or would it have been better if the US had never existed at all?

Just curious on opinions pro or con.

Discuss/ debate

Of course it's not either/or, as a nation this size and this complex will have had many, many various influences on humanity and on the world.

Also, the poison of greed and willful ignorance that is now choking this country and driving it to make so many really bad decisions is not exclusive to the United States. It is a poison that has infected human beings everywhere on the Earth and is causing great damage everywhere as a result.

The cause of all this "evil" is not the right, or the left, or the rich, or the poor, or the black, pr the white, or the brown. The cause is embracing and accepting our own greed and selfishness as though these were internal virtues rather than internal defects. We see and hear it more in the U.S. because the U.S. is a big, powerful, LOUD, very capitalist culture. And it has been for a long time. But make no mistake. The evil is everywhere, and has long ago infected every culture on the planet.

Humans are a collective, cooperative species that now thinks it's a bunch of lone rangers, beholding to no one else for anything, and owing no one else anything. And all this selfishness is going to destroy us if we don't come to grips with it, soon, and start acting more cooperatively and in our collective best interests. There are just too many humans on the Earth, now, and we are far too effecting for all this greed and stupidity to continue.

 

[Jimmy]

It’s a blessing to live here imo.

 

[anna.]

To be quite honest, I have mixed feelings about the United States. This country was, after all, founded on forcibly taken land (Manifest Destiny), and its government violated hundreds of legal treaties that were established with the indigenous tribes. These tribes were either forcibly removed from their tribal lands or they were killed, and many of their children were forcibly taken and placed in Christian boarding schools with the sole purpose of stripping them of their culture and assimilation ("Kill the Indian, save the man"). American Indians were also denied citizenship until 1924 and religious freedom until 1978. The enslavement of African men, women, and children was rampant at the time of this country's founding, and slavery was woven into the Constitution (the Three-Fifths Clause). Furthermore, slavery was legal in this country from 1776 to 1865, and yes, there was a Civil War that brought an end to legalized slavery, but the atrocious injustice of discrimination and legalized segregation of African-Americans (separate but equal) wasn't addressed until the Civil Rights Act in 1964 and the Voting Rights Act in 1965. I'd also like to mention that women were also denied the right to vote until 1920.

And all of this injustice and heinous atrocities against minorities occurred in a country that boasts "freedom, liberty, and justice for all" and also has this profound proclamation dating back before its founding: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" (Preamble to the Declaration of Independence).

Finally, the United States of America is 247 years old, and yet there has only been one president in its entire history who is not an old white man. I'm sorry if saying this sounds prejudicial against white men and white people in general, but please know that is not my intent. I can't find the words to explain why this bothers me, but it does. It also bothers me that before Kamala Harris was sworn in as Vice President by our current President Joe Biden, the highest-ranking position in the U.S. government held by a woman was the former Speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi. To be honest, I don't love America, but I don't hate it either. I'm not indifferent to it, though, because I'm troubled by its violent racist history and the political turmoil festering in national politics, as well as all the other problems plaguing the nation. Do I believe America is good or evil? My answer is both, because during its 247-year history, it has been good and evil. We, the people of the United States of America, have the potential to do good for the world and the potential to seriously harm it.

Well said! (Although there was one memorable young white man, JFK.)

Have you ever read Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee? Highly recommend.
A People's History of the United States
Farewell to Manzanar (memoir of a victim of forced Japanese American internment)

Then there's the ill treatment of the Chinese in California in the 19th. century and the Chinese Exclusion Act, the efforts to "Americanize" Mexican immigrants in California, and on and on...

 

[anna.]

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[anna.]

Was the institution of the United States good for the world, or would it have been better if the US had never existed at all?

Just curious on opinions pro or con.

Discuss/ debate

Your title question is different from your OP question. You use evil in the title, but not here, so I'm not sure which question to answer.

I don't see any country as "good" or "evil," I leave that to individuals, whether leaders or followers, and by extension, groups or tribes of like-minded individuals. I can't think of a country that doesn't have good and evil in its history. Having said that, I think the U.S. stands out for its attempts to establish a country on enlightenment principles, even if we as a nation haven't always lived up to them.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Well said!

Thank you, Anna.

(Although there was one memorable young white man, JFK.)

Have you ever read Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee? Highly recommend.
A People's History of the United States
Farewell to Manzanar (memoir of a victim of forced Japanese American internment)

Then there's the ill treatment of the Chinese in California in the 19th. century and the Chinese Exclusion Act, the efforts to "Americanize" Mexican immigrants in California, and on and on...

Ah, President Kennedy. I should have thought of him. My mistake.

And yes, I've read Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee and also A People's History of the United States, but not the last book.

 

[anna.]

Thank you, Anna.



Ah, President Kennedy. I should have thought of him. My mistake.

And yes, I've read Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee and also A People's History of the United States, but not the last book.

To be honest, I expected to say you'd read the first two. As for the last, it's a slim book, and certainly not the only memoir out there, but it was one that stuck with me. I read it when I was a library tech and was trying to read books that I could recommend. I'm glad I'm not a library tech out there in these book-burning days.

 

[exchemist]

Was the institution of the United States good for the world, or would it have been better if the US had never existed at all?

Just curious on opinions pro or con.

Discuss/ debate

Yes the USA has been an influence for good in the world in many respects. It has had its major flaws of course, its hanging onto slavery for so long being one of the most obvious. I would think its participation in the Second World War would probably be the high point.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The United States government was slowly taken over by plutocratic élites who eroded, slowly and inexorably, the American citizens' freedoms.

There was nothing slowly about it. Even on Day 1 Uncle Sam was repressing, stealing, murdering and colonizing.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

A People's History of the United States

That's a book I've not been able to recommend highly enough.

 

[1137]

Was the institution of the United States good for the world, or would it have been better if the US had never existed at all?

Just curious on opinions pro or con.

Discuss/ debate

I like to say the U.S. is the best country in the world, but this is not a compliment to the U.S., rather an insult to the world.

 

[Viker]

It's a fact that the United States were founded by British colonizers who rose against the motherland and created a country based upon freedom, equality, justice. They have become, in an era of great changes the beacon of the Western Civilization.
La Fayette who stormed the Bastille in 1789 had been in the US.

The United States government was slowly taken over by plutocratic élites who eroded, slowly and inexorably, the American citizens' freedoms.

Just think of the Jekyll Island Club and what they did in 1910.
They stole the monetary sovereignty from the people.

So...please...let's distinguish the commoners from the élites.
It's the élites who do bad things behind the people's back.

And it's not the American citizens who need to be held accountable for things done by very few people, behind the scenes...
who come out with the favor of darkness...

George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, Benjamin Franklin, Alexander Hamilton, John Jay and James Madison. Out of these seven only Franklin and Hamilton could be considered commoners, who did rise to prominence by their own merit. Both Franklin and Hamilton kind of smirked at the statement 'We the People '. Not because they disagreed but because they knew that wasn't what everyday folk think that it meant. It wouldn't be until the abolition of slavery, the women's suffrage movement victorious and the civil rights era that this idea could start to be truth. Those elites, the wealthiest of us, have been trying to undermine this ever since day one.

 

[Viker]

I wouldn't consider the US good or evil. It's capable at both just as any other nation or world power. It just happens to be the wealthiest world power (with the fastest growing economic disparity at home) for now.