Is Thelema a new Religion?

[Octavia156]

Is Thelema a "New Religion"?
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Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

​

"Would you describe your system as a new religion?" A pertinent question, you doubtless suppose; whether it may happen to mean anything is—is—is—well, is what we must try to make clear.
True, it's a slogan of A∴ A∴ "The method of science—the aim of religion.& Here the word "aim" and the context help the definition; it must mean the attainment of Knowledge and Power in spiritual matters—or words to that effect: as soon as one selects a phrase, one starts to kick holes in it! Yet we both know perfectly well all the time what we do mean.


But this is certainly not the sense of the word in your question. It may clear our minds, as has so often happened, if we examine it through the lens of dear old Skeat.


Religion, he says, Latin: religio, piety. Collection or paying attention to: religens as opposed to negligens, neglecting; the attitude of Gallio. But it also implies a binding together i.e. of ideas; in fact, a "body of doctrine." Not a bad expression. A religion then, is a more or less coherent and consistent set of beliefs, with precepts and prohibitions therefrom deducible. But then there is the sense in which Frazer (and I) often use the word: as in opposition to "Science" or "Magic." Here the point is that religious people attribute phenomena to the will of some postulated Being or Beings, placable and moveable by virtue of sacrifice, devotion, or appeal.

Against such, the scientific or magical mind believes in the Laws of Nature, asserts "If A, then B"—if you do so-and-so, the result will be so-and-so, aloof from arbitrary interference. Joshua, it is alleged, made the sun stand still by supplication, and Hezekiah in the same way cause it to "go back upon the dial of Ahaz;" Willett did it by putting the clock back, and getting an Act of Parliament to confirm his lunacy. Petruchio, too "It shall be what o'clock I say it is!" The two last came close to the magical method; at least, to that branch of it which consists of "fooling all the people all the time." But such an operation, if true Magick were employed, would be beyond the power of any magician of my acquaintance; for it would mess up the solar system completely. (You remember how this happened, and what came of it, in a rather clever short story by H.G. Wells.)

For true Magick means "to employ one set of natural forces at a mechanical advantage as against another set"—I quote, as closely as memory serves, Thomas Henry Huxley, when he explains that when he lifts his water-jug—or his elbow—he does not "defy the Law of Gravitation." On the contrary, he uses that Law; its equations form part of the system by which he lifts the jug without spilling the water.


To sum up, our system is a religion just so far as a religion means an enthusiastic putting-together of a series of doctrines, no one of which must in any way clash with Science or Magick.

Call it a new religion, then, if it so please your Gracious Majesty; but I confess that I fail to see what you will have gained by so doing, and I feel bound to add that you might easily cause a great deal of misunderstanding, and work a rather stupid kind of mischief.
The word does not occur in The Book of the Law.

Love is the law, love under will.
Fraternally,
666​

 

[1137]

Only taking from Crowley seems more like Crowleyism in my opinion, not Thelema. Just a side bar.

 

[Informare]

To me, this is a perfect example of the best and worst of Crowley. Crowley was both so bad and so good at explaining something. If you can manage to roll with his sentences and references, you'll find a great explanation, even a perfect explanation. But for most people, and for most of Crowley's writing, very few can catch all of his references and follow his though process accurately.

If someone were to ask me this question, I would simply answer, "Yes, it is. By the generally accepted definitions of new and religion, Thelema is a new religion." The end. Crowley can be so obfuscating, even if unintentionally.

 

[1137]

Very true. I've tried sharing work of Crowley to friends and they're usually completely lost. Forget you need a decent grasp of occultism to understand the symbolism, you need practice just reading the words.

 

[Octavia156]

To me, this is a perfect example of the best and worst of Crowley. Crowley was both so bad and so good at explaining something. If you can manage to roll with his sentences and references, you'll find a great explanation, even a perfect explanation. But for most people, and for most of Crowley's writing, very few can catch all of his references and follow his though process accurately.

If someone were to ask me this question, I would simply answer, "Yes, it is. By the generally accepted definitions of new and religion, Thelema is a new religion." The end. Crowley can be so obfuscating, even if unintentionally.

Standard response requiring the reader to think about the question from every angle in order to make clear the definition of the keyword.

It Thelema a religion Yes it is - but only by this specific defintion : Our system is a religion just so far as a religion means an enthusiastic putting-together of a series of doctrines, no one of which must in any way clash with Science or Magick.

For me that is a 'perfect explanation

Understandbly to dip in and out of Crowley it may seem seem inconsistent, or untelliigable nonsence.

i've 3 feet of Crowley books in my library i've read cover to cover over the years. Biased of couse but to me he is the greatest philosopher of the 20th century.

Is anyone if confused by Crowley - ask! i might be able to explain it simply. As a teacher its my job to do that.

As a Thelemite my personal belief is that Thelema is a New Religion.

What needs to be undersood is what this ' 'New Religion' means in relation to what has been before.

Its fascinating stuff.. finding Crowley was best thing that evr happene to me - and i'm not Crowley fanatic - every man and woman is a star - there is no dififfernce. he was as flawed as the rest of us.. an man. but one that accomplished a great deal - i personally think that crowley did a lot of crazy stuff - so we don't have to - paving the way so to speak.

He introduced Huxley to Mescaline is just one eg.

By the way there are plenty of Thelemites that don't use Thelema in a religious way and see it as the antithesis.
But this is fine. Thelema sovlves many paradoxes - any person is free to view Thelema as their True Wil dictates. The Law of Thelema is intended for All.

This doen't require a belief in anything but YOURSELF and the Freedom of man, in whom is god.

 

[Octavia156]

Very true. I've tried sharing work of Crowley to friends and they're usually completely lost. Forget you need a decent grasp of occultism to understand the symbolism, you need practice just reading the words.

A person need to read the right books... in the right order.

if you wanna know crowley - ready his diaries, or his autohagiograohy.
or 'diary of a drug fiend' is awesome novel.

then you need to get the Thoth Tarot deck and the book of Thoth. Give that a few months of daily card drawing.

My favourite go-to Crolwy book of all is Liber Aleph.

nice signature btw

 

[Octavia156]

Is anyone if confused by Crowley - ask me or seek clarification from another Thelemite - don't give up just yet! i might be able to explain it simply. As a teacher its my job to do that.

I wanted to edit this bit and add a disclaimer but its too late.

**Disclaimer - I must stress I am not claiming any expertise or qualification in Crowley's work - anything I say can only be my opinion, or my understanding of what I've learnied from those who've studies harder than I. Neither do I intened to sound like I'm boasting in any way. Much of it still baffles me too - I don't get on with the more poetic/overly symbolic side of his Work - I should try harder perhaps..

I should also add I could not have understood Crowley without the asistance of someone more knowledgable than I. Luckily I found people who were able to clear up my confusions... and after unavoidable private contemplation would come the inevitable Aha! moment... when it clicks and you have that moment of pure Gnosis.

But the opportunity to try and simplify Crowley and the Religion of Thelema will always give me great pleasure... he thought he was explaining himself simply - but Genius' often lack the ability to epathasize with us regular non-'Ivy League' brains.

Thelema is a Religion that is based on Science and thus marries 2 things that don't mix [just like it solves the age-old paradox of Free Will vs Fate].
And when he uses the word Magick - he means the human ability to Change things

As a Scientist myself I must have evidence to support a theory... and there's nothing yet in Crowlweys work that cannot be backed up by experiential evidence. It may be sensationally dressed up in metaphor or overally symbolic literary terminology, but its all founded on reasoned facts. Facts made meaningful for those that seek some kind of meaning.

It IS the method of Science and the Aim of Religion. I've asked "What is the Aim of Religion" in the Theological Concepts forum if you've any ideas about that Its obviously essential to understand what the aim is - you can't do a experiment without a hypothesis!

I could not be an Atheist in the nihilistic materialistic sense of the word because the world is just too amazing for be to believe that - the evidence suggests quite the opposite. But essentially I am an Atheist - because the evidence suggests that the only god i know of is my brain: "I am Omniscient, for nothing exists for me unless I know it"

Who was it makes the grass again?

I observe am always the centre of my Universe - its quite impossible for me not to be, and yet the circumference of my existance is noone to be found.

There is "me" and there is "that which is 'not-me'". Other than the fact that I will die, this is all I can ever truely KNOW.
So where do we go from here? another discussion hopefully.

I would encourage anyone who has ever sought a philosophical system that gives a logical reason for life, with no blind faith, no fairytales or deluded dogmas, to give Crowley a chance... you don't have to like him or agree with his actions, hearing the message is the only impotant thing. It would be my humble honor to assist anyone on this path as best I can.


Love is the law, love under will

 

[Octavia156]

Very true. I've tried sharing work of Crowley to friends and they're usually completely lost. Forget you need a decent grasp of occultism to understand the symbolism, you need practice just reading the words.

Robert Anton Wilson said communication is only possible amounst equals.
Impertanant Crowley said - don't bother throwing pearls before swine.

Without sounding condescending to you, if you can't explain it simply enough for a child to understand it, you probably don't properly understand it yourself. I'm constanly thinking about Thelema because it is my life, so when someone asks me i've usually already answered it in my head - you just have to tailor your language to your audience.
You definitely don't need an understnading of the occult to understand Thelema. You need some persistance and a sense of humour to Understand Crowley the person... but The Law is for All. (thats how its supposed to be anyway)