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Is there a place called purgatory?
- Thread starter SonOfNun
- Start date
James the Persian
Dreptcredincios Crestin
Perhaps you ought to ask in the Catholic forum, as the belief in purgatory is peculiar to Roman Catholicism. It's one of the doctrines that have been developed by Rome since their split with us almost a millennium ago.
James
James
doppelganger
Through the Looking Glass
Isn't this the Christianity forum? Catholics are Christians, and it might be interesting to read whether some non-Catholic Christians like the idea of Purgatory and, if so, why.
James the Persian
Dreptcredincios Crestin
doppelgänger;837353 said:
I never said RCs weren't Christians. I just think that if you actually want to understand the justification for a doctrine that is peculiar to a single group then you would be better off asking those who adhere to it. Of course, if your purpose is to stir the pot rather than to genuinely understand, I can see why you'd prefer to put it in the general Christian debate section...
James
James the Persian
Dreptcredincios Crestin
I am neither Roman Catholic nor Protestant - there's more to Christianity than just those two groups. My point was that asking Christians in general about a doctrine that does not apply to Christians in general seems rather pointless, unless your purpose is provoke an argument, of course, because you can't do that in the Catholic forum, can you?
James
doppelganger
Through the Looking Glass
This isn't a debate section. And Roman Catholics are Christians, so they can post their views and experiences here, too.
From my perspective, which is heavily informed by experiences as a Roman Catholic (born, baptized, educated and married in the Church), the idea of "being perfect as your Father in Heaven is perfect" (Matt 5), might counsel for something at least symbolically like Purgatory, as perfection could be viewed as unachievable in this consciousness, thus necessitating some transition into perfect unity with God after death.
MaddLlama
Obstructor of justice
Calm down.
The thread can easily be moved to another subforum. SoN is new, and doesn't exactly know how to navigate the plethora of subforums for Christianity. Theres no need to get nasty about it.
SonOfNun
Member
haha.... I wasn't trying to start a fight... All i wanted was some biblical evidence that purgatory is real. If you guys want to move it thats fine with me. I discovered PM's though so now I can PM people who I feel really know what they're talking about, and can cut through a lot of junk.
doppelganger
Through the Looking Glass
athanasius
Well-Known Member
Good question. The Word Purgatory is not in the bible. Just like the Word Trinity is not in the bible. But the bible teaches the concepts of both the Trinity and Purgatory. Purgatory is word to describe is the final stage of ones sanctification/purification. God sanctifies us throughout life, making us holy and helping us weed out our sinfullness by his grace. Some people when they die, may still have some sinfullness to be sanctified from. One thing we know biblically is that nothing inpure can enter heaven(Rev 21:27). So since nothing impure can enter heaven and since some people may not be fully sancrified, then God must provide a way of sancitifying them before they enter heaven. We catholic see Purgatory as the way. Think of it as having to go into the Shower before you get into the public pool. Heaven is the public pool, Purgatory is the shower, the fire of the Holy Spirit is who sanctifies us.
Biblically there are a few passages that allude to this. One thing is for sure, Catholics look to Paul in 1 Cor 3:10-15. We see Paul talking about ones life being judged after death. Some people who build their lives off of wood hay and stubble(have some sinfullness) will be saved but only as fleeing through Fire. We Catholics would say this Fire is the Purgatorial fire that God uses to cleanse and purify the soul. Its the final rush of sanctification for a christian. It happens only by virtue of Christ Cross. It can happen in this life through suffering or in the next through purgatory. Catholics speak of this as the refining fires of purgatory. Another passage that can be used in hinting to or alluding to this realty is (Matt 5:25-27) where the Lord speaks of going on to the after life with some grudges(Sinfullness) aginast his borther and being thrown into prison(Purgartory) until we have paid the last penny(Until we have been purged). Now one must ask is heaven a prison? NO. and Is hell something that we can get out of by paying the penny? No, hell is eternal. Catholics see this passage as implicitly alluding to Purgatory. The ealry Christians such as St Cyprian of Carthage in the year 253 also taught this and the others passges to mean the purgatoriel concept.
The early Christians of the first 7 centuries spoke of this concept and used both passages to teach it.
I hope that helps. God bless you on your journey.
Athanasius
joeboonda
Well-Known Member
I don't believe the Bible teaches the concept of Purgatory, for the Bible says to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord who is in Heaven. Also, it says Jesus paid for ALL our sins, all is all, and we were given Christ's righteousness in place of our own, thus no sin to pay for, no purification for righteousness, for we have Christ's righteousness, and His death that paid for ALL our sins. It also says we shall all be changed, our bodies transformed into sinless, immortal, glorified. : I Cor. 15:
50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
athanasius
Well-Known Member
Thanks for your opinion Joe. While I dissagree with your opinion profoundly and suggest that you look at the whole of sacred scripture and what it teaches, I will say that I in no way want to debate this issue with you. As a matter of fact this is NOT a debate board, but rather a question board. The gentlemen ask about the biblical reality of Purgatory. I simply gave him the Catholic response, which is the ancient Christian historical response. If you would like to debate this then please start a debate on one of the debate boards. If you would like to discuss this personally with me, then send me a private letter.
I truly hope my explanation helped Sonofnun and anyone else listening and trying to"Understand"(Not debate) the Catholic and ancient christian point of view
thank you and Peace to you and God bless you in Jesus through Mary.
joeboonda
Well-Known Member
No, I don't want to debate it, I was giving my belief about purgatory is all. I attended the Catholic Church when I was very young. I do not believe the early church of the New Testament taught Purgatory, its not in my Bible, anyway. But I'll leave this subject alone as you pointed out its a discussion not a debate thread.