Is there anything outside the material universe?

[tayla]

Is there anything outside the material universe?

Seems to me there are things not contained within the material physical universe and, therefore, not explained by science. Some examples:

1. The subjective experience of consciousness.
2. The initial conditions of the universe that allows it to support complex chemical biological life.
3. Sense of moral attributes such as goodness, beauty, love.
4. The presence of a divine creator God.

I propose that everything not contained within the physical realm resides within the spiritual realm. Such things as: beauty, concepts, consciousness, dreams, emotions, God, goodness, hallucinations, holiness, hope, ideas and concepts, life, memories, mind, morality, reason, souls, spirits, symbols, visions, will, and etc.

I also propose that nothing can be proved about the structure or function of the spiritual realm. There is no "spiritual" method corresponding to the scientific method. Therefore, all revealed religion and all beliefs about the spiritual realm are mere opinions. And there is no reason at all to expect anyone to adopt our opinions.

 

[WalterTrull]

I propose that everything not contained within the physical realm resides within the spiritual realm

I propose that there is no physical realm.

 

[Mock Turtle]

I propose that there is no physical realm.

Tell that to the hammer and the nail.

 

[sayak83]

Is there anything outside the material universe?

Seems to me there are things not contained within the material physical universe and, therefore, not explained by science. Some examples:

1. The subjective experience of consciousness.
2. The initial conditions of the universe that allows it to support complex chemical biological life.
3. Sense of moral attributes such as goodness, beauty, love.
4. The presence of a divine creator God.

I propose that everything not contained within the physical realm resides within the spiritual realm. Such things as: beauty, concepts, consciousness, dreams, emotions, God, goodness, hallucinations, holiness, hope, ideas and concepts, life, memories, mind, morality, reason, souls, spirits, symbols, visions, will, and etc.

I also propose that nothing can be proved about the structure or function of the spiritual realm. There is no "spiritual" method corresponding to the scientific method. Therefore, all revealed religion and all beliefs about the spiritual realm are mere opinions. And there is no reason at all to expect anyone to adopt our opinions.

There is no material universe here at all.

 

[WalterTrull]

Tell that to the hammer and the nail.

The mental hammer and nail.

 

[Polymath257]

Is there anything outside the material universe?

Seems to me there are things not contained within the material physical universe and, therefore, not explained by science. Some examples:

1. The subjective experience of consciousness.
2. The initial conditions of the universe that allows it to support complex chemical biological life.
3. Sense of moral attributes such as goodness, beauty, love.
4. The presence of a divine creator God.

I propose that everything not contained within the physical realm resides within the spiritual realm. Such things as: beauty, concepts, consciousness, dreams, emotions, God, goodness, hallucinations, holiness, hope, ideas and concepts, life, memories, mind, morality, reason, souls, spirits, symbols, visions, will, and etc.

I also propose that nothing can be proved about the structure or function of the spiritual realm. There is no "spiritual" method corresponding to the scientific method. Therefore, all revealed religion and all beliefs about the spiritual realm are mere opinions. And there is no reason at all to expect anyone to adopt our opinions.

1. All present evidence points to consciousness being a process in the brain, which is material.

2. Life developed billions of years after the 'initial conditions' of the universe. Whether those conditions *could* be any different than they were is still an open question. Whether there is a larger multiverse with many universes is also an open question. To jump to a 'spiritual realm' is way premature.

3. Yes, those are ideas in human minds, and are thereby physical processes in brains.

4. A presence not demonstrated.

And if everything about the spiritual realm is an opinion, it is an equally valid opinion to think no such realm exists.

 

[George-ananda]

1. The subjective experience of consciousness.
2. The initial conditions of the universe that allows it to support complex chemical biological life.
3. Sense of moral attributes such as goodness, beauty, love.
4. The presence of a divine creator God.

5. Paranormal events not explainable in a materialist framework

 

[BSM1]

I propose that there is no physical realm.

I knew it!

 

[YmirGF]

I knew it!

It's a particularly amusing idea being floated by beings who are currently quite physical. *rolls eyes*

 

[WalterTrull]

1. All present evidence points to consciousness being a process in the brain, which is material.

Well, not all evidence. Here's from Doc Henry.

“Now we are beginning to see that quantum mechanics might actually exclude any possibility of mind-independent reality….

Why do people cling with such ferocity to belief in a mind-independent reality? It is surely because if there is no such reality, then ultimately (as far as we can know) mind alone exists. And if mind is not a product of real matter, but rather is the creator of the illusion of material reality (which has, in fact, despite the materialists, been known to be the case, since the discovery of quantum mechanics in 1925), then a theistic view of our existence becomes the only rational alternative to solipsism.”

Richard Conn Henry and Stephen R. Palmquist
Journal of Scientific Exploration Issue 21-3

 

[Polymath257]

Well, not all evidence. Here's from Doc Henry.

“Now we are beginning to see that quantum mechanics might actually exclude any possibility of mind-independent reality….

Why do people cling with such ferocity to belief in a mind-independent reality? It is surely because if there is no such reality, then ultimately (as far as we can know) mind alone exists. And if mind is not a product of real matter, but rather is the creator of the illusion of material reality (which has, in fact, despite the materialists, been known to be the case, since the discovery of quantum mechanics in 1925), then a theistic view of our existence becomes the only rational alternative to solipsism.”

Richard Conn Henry and Stephen R. Palmquist
Journal of Scientific Exploration Issue 21-3

Sorry, but an opinion in a fringe science journal simply doesn't count.

That they also misunderstand quantum mechanics doesn't help their position.

 

[Nakosis]

And if everything about the spiritual realm is an opinion, it is an equally valid opinion to think no such realm exists.

Sure, but which is more fun? More entertaining?

And, do we actually get to choose that opinion?

 

[Mock Turtle]

The mental hammer and nail.

Like these?

 

[BSM1]

It's a particularly amusing idea being floated by beings who are currently quite physical. *rolls eyes*

I knew it!

 

[Brickjectivity]

I also propose that nothing can be proved about the structure or function of the spiritual realm. There is no "spiritual" method corresponding to the scientific method. Therefore, all revealed religion and all beliefs about the spiritual realm are mere opinions. And there is no reason at all to expect anyone to adopt our opinions.

It took me a long time to come to terms with that simple last sentence about expecting other people to adopt opinions. Its not always that people don't listen or won't listen. Often they just cannot. There is a lot of truth to saying that people only hear messages that they receive within themselves. An example is empathy. If I have no common experience with someone else's suffering then it is difficult for me to empathize. If I have shared the experience then I can listen to them, and they can listen to me. Otherwise there is some kind of idea wall. To discuss an idea you must be able to produce the idea within yourself, perhaps using some clues but nevertheless it has to partly become your own, or you cannot discuss it. In some way you have to be able to mirror it in your mind to meaningfully communicate.

 

[WalterTrull]

Sorry, but an opinion in a fringe science journal simply doesn't count.

That they also misunderstand quantum mechanics doesn't help their position.

OK, OK. Check out the Doc's curriculum vitae . This is a good read too. (I mean for me anyway)

 

[Polymath257]

OK, OK. Check out the Doc's curriculum vitae . This is a good read too. (I mean for me anyway)

Yeah, um, that's quite a CV.

 

[David T]

Is there anything outside the material universe?

Seems to me there are things not contained within the material physical universe and, therefore, not explained by science. Some examples:

1. The subjective experience of consciousness.
2. The initial conditions of the universe that allows it to support complex chemical biological life.
3. Sense of moral attributes such as goodness, beauty, love.
4. The presence of a divine creator God.

I propose that everything not contained within the physical realm resides within the spiritual realm. Such things as: beauty, concepts, consciousness, dreams, emotions, God, goodness, hallucinations, holiness, hope, ideas and concepts, life, memories, mind, morality, reason, souls, spirits, symbols, visions, will, and etc.

I also propose that nothing can be proved about the structure or function of the spiritual realm. There is no "spiritual" method corresponding to the scientific method. Therefore, all revealed religion and all beliefs about the spiritual realm are mere opinions. And there is no reason at all to expect anyone to adopt our opinions.

I love guitar.picks and I believe that although there isn't anything literally beyond guitar picks, I have this feeling.that maybe there is, but empirically I see no proof. So I have to say I am agnostic.

 

[David T]

The mental hammer and nail.

As a physical carpenter we get a lot of mental hammer and nails from the mental carpenters called architects..

 

[David T]

Well, not all evidence. Here's from Doc Henry.

“Now we are beginning to see that quantum mechanics might actually exclude any possibility of mind-independent reality….

Why do people cling with such ferocity to belief in a mind-independent reality? It is surely because if there is no such reality, then ultimately (as far as we can know) mind alone exists. And if mind is not a product of real matter, but rather is the creator of the illusion of material reality (which has, in fact, despite the materialists, been known to be the case, since the discovery of quantum mechanics in 1925), then a theistic view of our existence becomes the only rational alternative to solipsism.”

Richard Conn Henry and Stephen R. Palmquist
Journal of Scientific Exploration Issue 21-3

I am absolutely convinced women exist In an independent reality from men. Larry Krauss the famous atheist scientist got fired from arizona state for becoming influenced by that reality!!!! Magic got him in trouble and as such men need to be careful about magical thinking.