Is there really no normal? And more homosexual stuff...

[Just_me_Mike]

My son is autistic. What is that? Is he normal? Well in many areas he is normal. Is he a threat? Not really, he just suffers from "inadequate" social skills.

When we attempt to describe normal, it seems more appropriate to define it with in a particular setting. For example, if I have a batch of apples, and they are all red, round and look ready to eat, but in the middle of the bunch is an apple that just didn't grow right. It never really turned red, and when cut open it doesn't look ripe. In this setting we can identify this apple as not normal when compared to the average of other apples.

Is that even useful? I suppose if we did not teach our children to judge such situations, they might indeed eat the bad apple. So, for at least limited reasons it can be beneficial to find an average normalcy.

However, on the other hand if we ignored differences like these would we really run into problems? Isn't it safe to say on average a child would avoid that apple without being prompted? Most likely.

For my son, it is more complex, what if he was not identified as autistic? For example in public he does things that other people might be offended by, like make noises, or do strange things with his hands, so it is not uncommon for people to avoid, stare at, or even be frightened by him (he is a big boy). So it seems for the public's sake, and my sons sake it has been proper to identify him as not normal, which we call autistic.

Within autism, there is a spectrum, but what about "not normals" could the whole spectrum of autism be within the "not normal" spectrum? In this "not normal" spectrum which would also include, down syndrome, bi polar, and many other people who's brains are wired different.

So what about gay people? Religion aside, is it not appropriate to identify those who are gay or lesbian as people who are not normal? I accept my son for who he is, he has no control over that. If he was born gay I would accept that as well, but I think I wouldn't have a problem accepting it is not normal. Just as I have no problem accepting he is not normal with autism.

Again, the important things here seems to be the setting. In what setting is he not normal? If the entire populace was autistic could we not say he was the normal one, and those not autistic would be the "not normal" ones? So, in the US it seems being gay is considered not normal, because the majority of brains in the US are wired to be straight. For bigoted and religious reasons it is looked down upon despite whether a person is born with it or not. For this discussion I am trying to point out the difference between a bigot and myself (at this point in time).

I am attempting to point out that it is OK to understand homosexuality for what it is, a brain that deviates from the majority. Just as my son is autistic and can not help it. It seems this distinction is important to compare to the bigotry of the religious, because to bigots it is not OK they are born with it, they wish somehow they could magically not be gay. Much like many autistic parents have fallen prey to wishing their child was "normal", or their down syndrome child was normal.

Is it OK with everyone to identify the homosexual community as not normal since they make up 10% or less of the population? Yet at the same time accept them just as I accept my son is not normal because of his autism? Though they function in most regards as everyone else, they will always be different from the majority.

Is that a problem? Is it akin to saying not everyone has 32 freckles on their nose?

Let's discuss!

 

[end of time]

Homosexuality is very sad. I believe men and women are born “gay”. I don’t understand this, because the gay people I know have very troubled lives.

 

[AuroraWillow]

Homosexuality is very sad. I believe men and women are born “gay”. I don’t understand this, because the gay people I know have very troubled lives.

They have troubled lives because of all the religious folk telling them that their existence is somehow bad. Homosexuality itself is not sad, but the people who are afraid of it and have to make gay people feel inadequate are sad.

 

[Rakhel]

My son is autistic. What is that? Is he normal? Well in many areas he is normal. Is he a threat? Not really, he just suffers from "inadequate" social skills.

When we attempt to describe normal, it seems more appropriate to define it with in a particular setting. For example, if I have a batch of apples, and they are all red, round and look ready to eat, but in the middle of the bunch is an apple that just didn't grow right. It never really turned red, and when cut open it doesn't look ripe. In this setting we can identify this apple as not normal when compared to the average of other apples.

Is that even useful? I suppose if we did not teach our children to judge such situations, they might indeed eat the bad apple. So, for at least limited reasons it can be beneficial to find an average normalcy.

However, on the other hand if we ignored differences like these would we really run into problems? Isn't it safe to say on average a child would avoid that apple without being prompted? Most likely.

For my son, it is more complex, what if he was not identified as autistic? For example in public he does things that other people might be offended by, like make noises, or do strange things with his hands, so it is not uncommon for people to avoid, stare at, or even be frightened by him (he is a big boy). So it seems for the public's sake, and my sons sake it has been proper to identify him as not normal, which we call autistic.

Within autism, there is a spectrum, but what about "not normals" could the whole spectrum of autism be within the "not normal" spectrum? In this "not normal" spectrum which would also include, down syndrome, bi polar, and many other people who's brains are wired different.

So what about gay people? Religion aside, is it not appropriate to identify those who are gay or lesbian as people who are not normal? I accept my son for who he is, he has no control over that. If he was born gay I would accept that as well, but I think I wouldn't have a problem accepting it is not normal. Just as I have no problem accepting he is not normal with autism.

Again, the important things here seems to be the setting. In what setting is he not normal? If the entire populace was autistic could we not say he was the normal one, and those not autistic would be the "not normal" ones? So, in the US it seems being gay is considered not normal, because the majority of brains in the US are wired to be straight. For bigoted and religious reasons it is looked down upon despite whether a person is born with it or not. For this discussion I am trying to point out the difference between a bigot and myself (at this point in time).

I am attempting to point out that it is OK to understand homosexuality for what it is, a brain that deviates from the majority. Just as my son is autistic and can not help it. It seems this distinction is important to compare to the bigotry of the religious, because to bigots it is not OK they are born with it, they wish somehow they could magically not be gay. Much like many autistic parents have fallen prey to wishing their child was "normal", or their down syndrome child was normal.

Is it OK with everyone to identify the homosexual community as not normal since they make up 10% or less of the population? Yet at the same time accept them just as I accept my son is not normal because of his autism? Though they function in most regards as everyone else, they will always be different from the majority.

Is that a problem? Is it akin to saying not everyone has 32 freckles on their nose?

Let's discuss!

Understanding where you are coming from(daughter with autism), I never liked the word "normal" myself. Normal is the social average. Normal is conforming to what everyone else deems normal. And even then when you ask them what is normal, they point to what they think is normal, which may not be what you think is normal.
I think not going to a bar every weekend is normal, where others may think it is. Driving a car may be considered normal, until you talk to people in Manhattan where the norm is not driving. Some eat meat, some don't.
I think I like the word that was presented to me once by another autistic's mother. Her son was atypical. Natural is a close second.
It is natural to me to be heterosexual, while it is natural for my brother to be homosexual.

 

[LuisDantas]

It seems to me that defining normalcy leads inevitably to defining some people as abnormal in some way. It is only a problem if there is some sort of expectation that people "ought to be" normal, of course. Platin or strawberry blonde hair are also "abnormal", but there is no social stigma associated to it.

Of course, the true problem is in the difficulty of accomodating for the abnormality. There are very real, significant challenges in raising children even if they are of excellent health and behavior, so to a point it is only natural for parents to be disheartened by some sorts of "abnormality".

Then again, eidetic memory or an IQ of 130+ - and for that matter, even a particularly beautiful appearance - are just as abnormal as anything else, yet they are also usually welcome.

Ultimately, we should focus on our own rejection of unusual challenges, not on some careless expectations about "normality".

 

[tumbleweed41]

What is 'normal' changes along with societies attitudes. Homosexuals were once considered mentally defective. Locked up in institutions and forced to go through "reconditioning".
Of course the same things could happen to a woman with a active libido. Both men and women have been subject to lobotomies to cure "masturbation".

Fortunately, we, as a society, have moved beyond such barbaric and unscientific thinking.
But the old misconceptions about homosexuality still linger among many who are ignorant about the true nature of human sexuality.

Case in point...

Homosexuality is very sad. I believe men and women are born “gay”. I don’t understand this, because the gay people I know have very troubled lives.

This poster describes homosexuality as "very sad", although you have to at least give credit for the acceptance of genetics playing a role.
The problem here is that it is attitudes of pity, or hate, or aversion to homosexuality that makes life "troubled" for those in the LGBT community.
Instead of pity, a more constructive attitude would be acceptance. Support. Equality.

 

[AxisMundi]

My son is autistic. What is that? Is he normal? Well in many areas he is normal. Is he a threat? Not really, he just suffers from "inadequate" social skills.....

ONe of my younger brothers, had he been born more recently than 45 years ago, would have been diagnosed as Autistic.

That said, one would have to define "normal" to determine what constitutes "abnormality".

IMHO, considering that the conditions inherent in the human race that have been classified takes up an entire library, "normal" merely means acting/living within your natural capacity.

Where homosexuality is concerned, a gay man who has bought into the atrocity, the lie of "ex-gay minsitries" and is attempting to live a "straight lifestyle", is abnormal.

 

[AxisMundi]

Put any "normal" person in a gym full of Autistic people, who, then, is "normal"?

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Put any "normal" person in a gym full of Autistic people, who, then, is "normal"?

I said that in my post...

 

[AxisMundi]

I said that in my post...

Merely repeating a good phrase.