Is this world a purgatory?

[internationalist]

Shalom,

Is there any Christian view (any denomination) that considers this world to be a purgatory - hell would be redundant, considering the redemptive sorrow of this world?

Thanks,
I

 

[Gemini]

If this is purgatory then hell must be real doozy. Maybe it's different for each person though. Joseph Merrick ( the elephant man) , holocaust victims, and whoever is banging Scarlett Johannsson now seem to have evidently different kinds of experiences. A world where Scarlett Johansson is sexually active certainly can't be hell for that guy. So maybe Joseph Merrick and the Holocaust victims are in hell or some weird level of Purgatory that Dante and Bosch couldn't quite get right, and maybe whoever got to have sex with Scarlett Johansson circa Ghost World is in heaven. Put em all together and you've got God's favorite reality tv show.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

I don't think so. Purgatory in the sense of place isn't really a Chrisitan doctrine.

The Catholic Church gives the name Purgatory to the final purification of all who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified.[16] Though purgatory is often pictured as a place rather than a process of purification, the idea of purgatory as a place is not part of the Church's doctrine.[17]

 

[Villager]

Shalom,

Is there any Christian view (any denomination) that considers this world to be a purgatory - hell would be redundant, considering the redemptive sorrow of this world?

Thanks

Any view of purgatory is not just inimical to Christianity, it is nonsensical as a Christian concept. A Christ is a person who makes purgatory completely unnecessary. To assert that one can be a Christian and be subject to purgatory is as sensible as saying that a court declared one's total innocence, but one is going to serve a sentence, anyway. A Christian is one who, in the eyes of God, has the righteousness of God! Is God utterly insane?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Is God utterly insane?

Udderly insane. Udderly.

 

[kepha31]

Any view of purgatory is not just inimical to Christianity, it is nonsensical as a Christian concept.

The fact is purgatory is a Christian doctrine originating with the Jews, and expanded on by Jesus and Paul.

A Christ is a person who makes purgatory completely unnecessary.

Only when you read into biblical text a man made theology of justification by faith alone and penal atonement and other inventions that tosses God's justice and mercy out the window.

To assert that one can be a Christian and be subject to purgatory is as sensible as saying that a court declared one's total innocence, but one is going to serve a sentence, anyway.

That is a typical Protestant misconception of purgatory.

A Christian is one who, in the eyes of God, has the righteousness of God! Is God utterly insane?

Is God utterly blind?
Where did this "justification by faith alone" come from? It came from Martin Luther, not the Scriptures. Luther rejected good works because he did not believe in them. He was so depressed and introspective that he had difficulty in finding anything good in his motivation. I think he suffered from the typical scrupulosity problem. Unless he could find himself to be acting out of purely unselfish and disinterested motives, he thought that he was commiting a sin. This excessive pessimism is behind the Protestant idea of "Total Depravity".
Justification by faith alone (JBFA) was used by Luther as what psychiatrists call a catharsis. it is a strategy by which he was able to combat his depression and it kept him from committing suicide. (Read his autobiographical material and you will find this is literally true.)
If we obsessed about our motivations and kept worrying about whether or not we were acting with sufficient beneficence it would distract us from actually DOING good. Staupitz, Luther's confessor, told him to stop obsessing and just immerse himself in the work of his order. The idea was to ake his mind off himself and turn it outward towards doing good. Luther was far too self absorbed to do this and he wore himself out trying to excel at everything. This is what led him to postulate JBFA. The basis for this doctrine is mental illness, not Scripture.
http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...ristians-only-do-you-believe-purgatory-5.html post #44

 

[Villager]

Where did this "justification by faith alone" come from?

It came from the previous view that justification could be by faith and works. Without that context, "justification by faith" makes perfect sense, and is indeed the only rational view. This is because, if it is understood that the object of faith is the perfection of Christ, any additional source of justification looks like blasphemy, as it carries implication that Christ's righteousness is less than perfect.

The Christian is justified by Christ's righteousness from the first, and continuously thereafter. Sins committed do not remove justification, unless they are deliberately indulged, in which case, there is no faith to justify anyway. So there can be no need for purgatory. Those who believe that they can sin 'moderately' and make up for it after death are very badly mistaken.

 

[ronandcarol]

Greetings,

Their is no basis for purgatory. Martin Luther squelched that fantasy.
It was invented by the Roman Catholic Church to extort money from the
people, so that they could assist their dead realtives to get into heaven.
Martin Luther put a stop to the practice of indulgences. Amen to that.

Ron and Carol

 

[internationalist]

Any view of purgatory is not just inimical to Christianity, it is nonsensical as a Christian concept. A Christ is a person who makes purgatory completely unnecessary. To assert that one can be a Christian and be subject to purgatory is as sensible as saying that a court declared one's total innocence, but one is going to serve a sentence, anyway. A Christian is one who, in the eyes of God, has the righteousness of God! Is God utterly insane?

I am not talking about the Catholic doctrine of purgatory. I am wondering whether this world itself can be considered a purgatory - in the sense that we (sinners in the eyes of God) are given a horrible place (earth) where our hearts are cleansed of sin through redemptive suffering. In this context, can't we see this world as a purgatory/necessary evil we must go through (before going to heaven, which is our home)?

 

[Villager]

I am wondering whether this world itself can be considered a purgatory

The concept of purgatory, Catholic or otherwise, is not the same as that of purging. Purgatory is defined as the (painful) removal of sins that remain after this life. The justified person is accounted completely righteous, but still sins, and is sanctified, or purged of sin, after justification, and can and indeed should reach what the Bible calls completeness, or perfection, a practical wholeness, before death or the return of Jesus. So yes, purging or sanctification is not only possible, it is necessary; but it should not be confused with purgatory, which denies the fundamental purpose of the Bible, which is justification.

 

[Bob Dixon]

If you accept reincarnation as a Christian doctrine, this world could well be a purgatory.

 

[Villager]

How would you know which life you are in? How would you know whether your last life was better than the one before? How would you know when you had reached the last one?

Doesn't Christ make a bit more sense than all this?

 

[IsmailaGodHasHeard]

I do not believe in Purgatory.

 

[ronandcarol]

Greetings,

I'm staying away from that word purgatory since it has no Christian basis, but what this world is, is the devil's playground! He gets his time here on earth to torment and convert as many humans that he can before Christ comes back to throw him in his dark hole. In the meantime he has the run of the place, except for the followers of Christ, who he cannot take away from the grasp of God. SO, be a firm believer and continue to build on your Biblical knowledge, and that little red horned guy can not harm you. You are shielded by your faith.

Ron and Carol

 

[Villager]

torment and convert

Does the devil convert? Does he need to? Does he torment the majority, or leave them as they are? Does he torment anyone?

He tempts, yes. And he is not little.

Though this is hardly on topic.