ISIL, Taliban = True Islam??

[KWED]

Whatever the Koran says. It was written and edited by humans, probably not dictated by the Archangel Gabriel.

Any even slightly objective reading shows it was written by 7th century Arabs, for 7th century Arabs.
There isn't a single passage that makes more sense as the work of an infallible, omniscient, omnipotent, omni everything god.

 

[KWED]

Its not me who groups them together.

No one groups them together.
Although ironically I have seen you referring to "The West", as if Hungary, Sweden, Portugal and the USA are all politically, socially and culturally the same.

 

[KWED]

Should you read the entire Bible to understand Christianity? Doesn't seem reasonable. Since the Bible is one entity and there hundreds of Christian schisms and denominations. With quite different views on theology.

Ah, you clearly don't understand the nuanced requirements here.
If you want to criticise Islam you need to be fluent in Classical Arabic and have studied for years under an approved scholar.
If you want to support or promote Islam you don't even need to have read the Quran.

 

[KWED]

I don't think he cares, what you think.

That's the thing. He clearly does care, which is why he spends so much time on here trying to derail and deflect any criticism of Islam.

 

[KWED]

If you really wish to read something I can recommend some good books.

 

[KWED]

I would say there is no difference.

Edit: when we ask questions like "how large is Islam (or Christianity, or whatever religion)?" the conversation focuses on those who:

- self-identify as a member of the religious community in question, and
- are recognized as members by other members of the religious community.

We don't generally look to the Qur'an to decide whether a person is a Muslim or not.

Whether individual people are considered Muslims has no bearing on what Islamic scripture says.

In fact, there are key questions where different groups have mutually exclusive interpretations of the Qur'an, so we know that they can't both be right, but we acknowledge that both groups really are part of the spectrum that makes up Islam.

And neither define Islam, they merely define that groups interpretation of Islam.

I would also suggest that mutually exclusive interpretations are rare. It is merely ideas on how the shared interpretation should be implemented.

 

[stevecanuck]

When ever a religion is twisted to kill in the name of God

I assume you mean Islam. Can you tell us how that works? Please give examples of verses from the Qur'an that are "twisted", and how so. You might want to start with 9:111 (God has bought from the believers their selves and their possessions against the gift of Paradise; they fight in the way of God; they kill, and are killed). Thanks in advance.

and treat those who don't believe as animals its gone off track. I understand the need to defend Islam and why some of this has happened but it didn't change anything just a another bunch of people who died for nothing. I woke up today and its no different. God obviously was not with them because they lost or I guess he wasn't paying attention. Islam was to be a religion of peace. Strapping bombs to children has nothing to do with God and those who did it will pay dearly.

Please tell us how this works as well..

 

[KWED]

I Do not know enough about Islam, but I know for a fact they believe in the same God as the Christian and Jewish beliefs.

No they don't. They reject the concept of the trinitarian god of Christianity.

In that case, every abuse, hurt, kill, theft, etc., is in complete contradiction to the most basic laws and guides god gave us.

In the Quran, god says that some people should be flogged, have their hands and feet cut off, be tortured to death. Those are laws and guides from god, enshrined for all time in his perfect and unchangeable revelation for all mankind.

 

[stevecanuck]

Well, they are part of Islam. They're also forbidden by Islam.

Both beliefs are sincerely held as part of their religious belief by Muslims.

Verse numbers please.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Verse numbers please.

Irrelevant.

 

[sun rise]

Traditionally because its their culture.

When I was growing up in America, women especially were to dress modestly to avoid giving the appearance of being sexually available. Modest dress codes are still true to day of the Amish. There are groups of Jews with strict dress codes as well. And when I was in India years ago with friends, women were given the same advice about modest dressing. I see no difference in Islamic countries except that the standard of modesty varies by country.

 

[sun rise]

Many Muslims believe that Islam forbids killing or does not permit slavery, but both are incorrect beliefs. Those things are not part of Islam despite Muslims believing it.

Slavery is also part of the Bible. That is part of Judaism and Christianity in spite of Jews and Christians believing it.

 

[sun rise]

Objectivity = Results

That's ignorance of science. The Observer Effect - the Observer Effect

 

[firedragon]

When I was growing up in America, women especially were to dress modestly to avoid giving the appearance of being sexually available. Modest dress codes are still true to day of the Amish. There are groups of Jews with strict dress codes as well. And when I was in India years ago with friends, women were given the same advice about modest dressing. I see no difference in Islamic countries except that the standard of modesty varies by country.

Haha. Even in Afghanistan, women didnt dress like they do now. This new dress is alien to them. This muslim dress code is evolving and has been evolving for about a number of years. In some places in Asia, I believe including India, it would have been like spotting a bat during daytime to see a muslim woman in a face covered dress. So rare. But now, its common.

Anyway, all of these things have a lot of sociological matters to consider. Its a long long story.

 

[firedragon]

Islam is 100% 'ought to be'. The Qur'an spends 6,236 verses on 'ought to be'.

You have never read the Quran.

 

[stevecanuck]

who are called Mushrikeens

That would be the Milwaukee Mushrikeens of the East Coast Hockey League. GO 'KEEEEENNNSSSS'!!!!!

 

[firedragon]

That would be the Milwaukee Mushrikeens of the East Coast Hockey League. GO 'KEEEEENNNSSSS'!!!!!

Nah. Wrong.

 

[loverofhumanity]

That seems a little short-sighted of god. After all, it is people who have to follow the religion, not god.

In the Quran it says that there are passages which are clear as day and need no interpretation but other mystical passages which only God knows and will be revealed on the Day of Resurrection. It goes on to say that those who are wicked use the mystical passages for personal ambitions. That perfectly describes groups such as the Taliban.

Sura 3:7

it is He who has sent this Scripture down to you [Prophet]. Some of its verses are definite in meaning- these are the cornerstone of the Scripture- and others are ambiguous. The perverse at heart eagerly pursue the ambiguities in their attempt to make trouble and to pin down a specific meaning of their own: only God knows the true meaning. Those firmly grounded in knowledge say, ‘We believe in it: it is all from our Lord’- only those with real perception will take heed-

 

[firedragon]

interpretation but other mystical passages which only God knows and will be revealed on the Day of Resurrection.

The verse you gave does not say "will be revealed on the Day of Resurrection".

Also, in the verse you gave above, chapter 3:7, says that "The perverse at heart eagerly pursue the ambiguities in their attempt to make trouble".

Are you saying that since you take these ambiguities so heavily you are "perverse at hear" as this verse says?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

That's the thing. He clearly does care, which is why he spends so much time on here trying to derail and deflect any criticism of Islam.

You are wrong. Remember? I am still waiting for you to explain how you know that another human is wrong?
Is knowledge of God natural knowledge?

So just deliver the evidence.