ISIS loses

[sandandfoam]

This says it all.

“Friday night, you took an exceptional life - the love of my life, the mother of my son - but you will not have my hatred. I don't know who you are and I don't want to know, you are dead souls. If this God, for whom you kill blindly, made us in his image, every bullet in the body of my wife would have been one more wound in his heart.

So, no, I will not grant you the gift of my hatred. You're asking for it, but responding to hatred with anger is falling victim to the same ignorance that has made you what you are. You want me to be scared, to view my countrymen with mistrust, to sacrifice my liberty for my security. You lost.

I saw her this morning. Finally, after nights and days of waiting. She was just as beautiful as when she left on Friday night, just as beautiful as when I fell hopelessly in love over 12 years ago. Of course I am devastated by this pain, I give you this little victory, but the pain will be short-lived. I know that she will be with us every day and that we will find ourselves again in this paradise of free love to which you have no access.

We are just two, my son and me, but we are stronger than all the armies in the world. I don't have any more time to devote to you, I have to join Melvil who is waking up from his nap. He is barely 17-months-old. He will eat his meals as usual, and then we are going to play as usual, and for his whole life this little boy will threaten you by being happy and free. Because no, you will not have his hatred either.”

Source http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...in-defiant-message-to-attackers-a6737231.html

 

[leibowde84]

This says it all.

“Friday night, you took an exceptional life - the love of my life, the mother of my son - but you will not have my hatred. I don't know who you are and I don't want to know, you are dead souls. If this God, for whom you kill blindly, made us in his image, every bullet in the body of my wife would have been one more wound in his heart.

So, no, I will not grant you the gift of my hatred. You're asking for it, but responding to hatred with anger is falling victim to the same ignorance that has made you what you are. You want me to be scared, to view my countrymen with mistrust, to sacrifice my liberty for my security. You lost.

I saw her this morning. Finally, after nights and days of waiting. She was just as beautiful as when she left on Friday night, just as beautiful as when I fell hopelessly in love over 12 years ago. Of course I am devastated by this pain, I give you this little victory, but the pain will be short-lived. I know that she will be with us every day and that we will find ourselves again in this paradise of free love to which you have no access.

We are just two, my son and me, but we are stronger than all the armies in the world. I don't have any more time to devote to you, I have to join Melvil who is waking up from his nap. He is barely 17-months-old. He will eat his meals as usual, and then we are going to play as usual, and for his whole life this little boy will threaten you by being happy and free. Because no, you will not have his hatred either.”

Source http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...in-defiant-message-to-attackers-a6737231.html

A truly humbling and epic response to terrorism. Thanks for sharing this.

 

[Debater Slayer]

No, ISIS is factually and statistically not losing. It is winning by killing more and more innocent people and recruiting more and more extremists. I don't oppose being humane and compassionate even to one's enemies, but the reality of global politics is harsh and cold; it knows power and only power. If you don't have power of some sort--military, economic, or diplomatic--you will be stepped on and left behind.

It took two nuclear bombs to help end World War II. I have very little doubt that it will take iron and fire to stop the likes of ISIS and Al-Qaeda. Smiles and rainbows don't stop cancer from spreading. Giving ISIS an inch will allow them to take a mile. There simply comes a point when utopianism, pacifism, and idealism are ineffective in the face of reality.

 

[sandandfoam]

No, ISIS is factually and statistically not losing. It is winning by killing more and more innocent people and recruiting more and more extremists. I don't oppose being humane and compassionate even to one's enemies, but the reality of global politics is harsh and cold; it knows power and only power. If you don't have power of some sort--military, economic, or diplomatic--you will be stepped on and left behind.

It took two nuclear bombs to help end World War II. I have very little doubt that it will take iron and fire to stop the likes of ISIS and Al-Qaeda. Smiles and rainbows don't stop cancer from spreading. Giving ISIS an inch will allow them to take a mile. There simply comes a point when utopianism, pacifism, and idealism are ineffective in the face of reality.

It seems you missed the widowers point.

 

[Sunstone]

It's always interesting to see two people, both most likely right, argue past each other.

 

[Twilight Hue]

It seems you missed the widowers point.

I think the widower is a noble and kind person but ISIS could care less about what she feels much less feel guilty over anything she has to say.

Sometimes hatred must be implemented to insure the total and utter destruction of ISIS and it's sympathizers to stop their insane madness. I mean kill all of them. Every single one.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

These guys should have been defeated the moment they surfaced. This isn't the Japanese or the Nazi's from WW2, they are just a bunch of punks with guns. They aren't even a nation yet entire nations struggle against them? No one finds this strange at all? And the thing is they aren't even the main thereat. They are just the begining.

 

[Revoltingest]

It seems you missed the widowers point.

It seems he was giving his own reaction as a counter.
Both perspectives have merit.

 

[sun rise]

The terrorist fanatics want to set up a situation where the west becomes a recruiting tool for them by reacting in anger and fear to Muslims and pushing them into the arms of the fanatics. Having a military response is one thing but we need to avoid helping them out.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

I think the widower is a noble and kind person but ISIS could care less about what she feels much less feel guilty over anything she has to say.

Sometimes hatred must be implemented to insure the total and utter destruction of ISIS and it's sympathizers to stop their insane madness. I mean kill all of them. Every single one.

You're making up excuses to justify hatred though. You can't justify hatred though and you know that. I will never understand why people think it's a good idea to fight fire with fire. Combating fire with fire burns the entire world. Am I saying one should offer them flowers? No. They should be stopped. But don't torture them or anything.

 

[sun rise]

Follow up to my post with a news story underlining it

All of the other suspects in the Paris attacks appear to have been European citizens. In fact, large numbers of citizens from France, Britain and other Western nations have traveled to Syria and Iraq to fight, suggesting that the problem is not so much those coming from over there but those who are already here. Nor are these people necessarily the ones with familial links to the Islamic world: There have been a number of European converts to Islam who have traveled to join the Islamic State, and vast numbers of European Muslims have repeatedly condemned the actions of the Islamic State.
...
If Muslim refugees come to Europe and are welcomed, it deeply undercuts the Islamic State's legitimacy. Aaron Zelin, a fellow at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, has helpfully catalogued some of the Islamic State's messages on the refugees pouring into Europe from the Middle East. The messages give the impression of deep discomfort and even jealousy that the Muslim population the Islamic State so covets for its self-proclaimed "caliphate" would rather live in "infidel" Western lands.
...
The strategy is explicit. The Islamic State explained after the January attacks on Charlie Hebdo magazine that such attacks “compel the Crusaders to actively destroy the grayzone themselves. . . . Muslims in the West will quickly find themselves between one of two choices, they either apostatize . . . or they [emigrate] to the Islamic State and thereby escape persecution from the Crusader governments and citizens.” The group calculates that a small number of attackers can profoundly shift the way that European society views its 44 million Muslim members and, as a result, the way European Muslims view themselves. Through this provocation, it seeks to set conditions for an apocalyptic war with the West.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/11/16/the-islamic-state-wants-you-to-hate-re
fugees/

 

[Debater Slayer]

It seems you missed the widowers point.

I can see his point; I just think that this kind of pacifism, while admirable in principle, is not going to stop ISIS. Sometimes violence is a necessary evil to defend oneself.

 

[Jumi]

While I respect the view posted in the OP, I think this is the same thing as with the Nazis. They just have to be stopped. No amount of cheek turning will make them stop killing innocents in Iraq, Syria, Kenya, France and other countries. While I usually support staying out of meddling in the Middle-East, in this case I will make an exception. I give my support to anyone fighting them, Russia, Assad, Kurds, France, Iran...

 

[Sunstone]

I can see his point; I just think that this kind of pacifism, while admirable in principle, is not going to stop ISIS. Sometimes violence is a necessary evil to defend oneself.

If you read the "letter" in the OP very closely, I think you will see it is not actually advocating pacifism. Maybe it's author is a pacifist. I don't know. But he is not advocating pacifism here. He is instead, to be precise, advocating living without hate, without anger; without those things eating at one's happiness, distorting one's heart and mind.

Contrast that with the photos you see now and then of some Palestinian children holding AK-47s and pledging death to Israel.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

One can stop a group like this without resorting to hatred. If you let hatred enter, your soul becomes poisoned and without even realizing it, you will end up being as savage as the people you fought against and perhaps even take their place.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

While I respect the view posted in the OP, I think this is the same thing as with the Nazis.

ISIS are a bunch of nasty religious fascists bent on jihad and world domination. There is no point trying to negotiate with them.

 

[Twilight Hue]

You're making up excuses to justify hatred though. You can't justify hatred though and you know that. I will never understand why people think it's a good idea to fight fire with fire. Combating fire with fire burns the entire world. Am I saying one should offer them flowers? No. They should be stopped. But don't torture them or anything.

How would you go about stopping something like this?

 

[Theweirdtophat]

How would you go about stopping something like this?

Before you try stop it, you need to figure out the source of the problem. What good does it to stop it if you haven't stopped the source that's replicating it. Think, what made these terrorists the way they are? It isn't just because they are crazy and want to hurt others for no reason. There is a reason behind it.


Extreme poverty and lack of education breeds crime. Meddling breeds crime. By that I mean that we have meddled in the middle east for quite some time which is abound to agitate some over there. Everything from Installing the Shah of Iran to the Gulf War, ect. All of the meddling, building bases, trying to bring "democracy breeds agitation. Stop the source, you stop the replication. Of course even though the middle east is agitated it does not give them an excuse to hurt others. I am listing the reasons why they are doing it. What they do isn't right.

But as far as confronting them, you should defend yourself and they should be stopped. But the question is, by whom? America or any other country is not the world police and we can't protect every square inch. However why hasn't anyone questioned that these guys are still running around. This isn't a huge empire, just a bunch of punks with guns who should have been defeated eons ago. No one finds it strange at all?

 

[sun rise]

A lot of the terrorists in this latest atrocity are Europeans. Focusing there would be productive.

 

[Aset's Flames]

No, ISIS is factually and statistically not losing. It is winning by killing more and more innocent people and recruiting more and more extremists. I don't oppose being humane and compassionate even to one's enemies, but the reality of global politics is harsh and cold; it knows power and only power. If you don't have power of some sort--military, economic, or diplomatic--you will be stepped on and left behind.

It took two nuclear bombs to help end World War II. I have very little doubt that it will take iron and fire to stop the likes of ISIS and Al-Qaeda. Smiles and rainbows don't stop cancer from spreading. Giving ISIS an inch will allow them to take a mile. There simply comes a point when utopianism, pacifism, and idealism are ineffective in the face of reality.

Correct tumors are not to be coddled, they are to be destroyed even if there is risk to do so. For if the tumor grows the results are worse.

ISIS is a tumor, and I think it is high time humanity cuts it out.