Islam and Women : The Head Scarf

[control.to.win]

Islam is a religion that puts a premium on purity. Purity of mind, body and soul. And anything that interferes with this purity (i.e. able to concentrate on God and worship Him and keep your priorities straight), Islam discourages, prohibits or tells you ways to go around such problems.

The main issue here is that Islam does not allow pre-marital conjugal relationships. The wisdom in this commandment is not, I think, lost on anyone. So, how to make sure this does not happen is what the entire issue is based on.

Now, this being the case, let us move onto Women. There is not difference between men and women is regards to their spiritual worth or reward from God. Each is judged equally based on their beliefs and actions in this world. That being said, onto the veil.

It is general knowledge that the more powerful a force, the more precaution must be taken to safeguard oneself from it. In the case of women, that force is the biological force of Sex. Extremely Powerful, to say the least. The force that ensures our continuation as a species would not be effective were it not so dominant in our psyche.

Now, Islam recognizes the power of sex, and instead of letting it run wild and run a man's life, provides means for him bring this force under control. For Islam wants to elevate a man from being a slave to his baser desires to loftier ideals goals. Firstly Islam tells men not to stare at women, nor freely mingle with them. This limits the chances of a man and woman being able to start a romantic relationship. Women are also told to wear the veil, to help facilitate this ordinance. The most attractive part of a woman is her hair. A bald woman is the biggest turn-off, and thus Islam tells woman to cover their hair when in public, so as not to tempt men and to help remind them of their duty to control their gazes.

This is the gist of the answer. The matter invariably turns to a question of women's rights and women should be allowed to wear what they want, men should control themselves, etc. Islam does not allow this. Islam acknowledges that a society can only work if everyone helps each other, and a pious society will only be able to stand if everyone works to help each other. The Quran says that believing men and women are friends of each other. Do friends devilishly tempt each other by displaying their charms to each other, tempting the other to break a commandment of God? No, friends help each other, facilitate ease for the other in reaching their goals, and a muslims goal is always to reach Allah. Sexual attraction to someone who is not "legal" for you in Islam (or halal) gives you no benefits. None. Instead, it merely causes you to burn on the inside, and incites you to sin.

 

[control.to.win]

another point for women against the Islamic notion of the relationship between and sexes, head scarves, etc. is this:

What exactly does a woman want form society? How does she want to be viewed? Does she want to be respected for her views as a person and her character and intelligence, or does she want to be admired for her beauty and seen as an object of lust for men? The answer is always mixed. She has both needs, to be seen as an individual who is able to contribute to society and as a thing of beauty.

Islam provides both of these. In society, where a woman wants to be known for her intelligence and character (as does any man), Islam advocates wearing the veil, both as a reminder to her and others around her that the true worth of a woman (or man) in society is not based on sex appeal, but in the other things she contributes.

Yet a woman is not prohibited form showing her beauty to those she wants acknowledgment from in this field either, mainly her girlfriend peers, family and her husband.

Therefore, Islam provides the ultimate balance for women, in both the public sphere and private sphere. I honestly have no idea why women everywhere do not see the beauty of this system catered to enabling women more than the sex-appeal driven western societal system.

 

[jmvizanko]

The main issue here is that Islam does not allow pre-marital conjugal relationships. The wisdom in this commandment is not, I think, lost on anyone. So, how to make sure this does not happen is what the entire issue is based on.

Actually that wisdom is lost entirely on me. I think people should really get to know everything about each other before they get married, and that includes sex. My life has certainly not been detrimented because of my premarital sex. So when you say "anyone" you might want to be a little more exclusive.

 

[control.to.win]

Actually that wisdom is lost entirely on me. I think people should really get to know everything about each other before they get married, and that includes sex. My life has certainly not been detrimented because of my premarital sex. So when you say "anyone" you might want to be a little more exclusive.

Again, you have not recognized Islam wishes to make an ENTIRE SOCIETY based on piety and the benefits it provides. You may not have been put to trouble by your pre-marital actions (at least, not in your mind). Think of those who have...Islam protects the society as a whole, which is why such sweeping ordinances are found in the Qur'an.

And society as a whole does suffer tremendously form pre-marital relationships and the resulting fall-out. I will hopefully make a separate thread on it.

 

[Adil]

Married man kissing another woman.

Q.If a married man kisses or caresses another woman but does not engage in full sex, is that adultery? Also what halal options are available to one who's wife no longer wants sex, and he can get it with another woman in the short term?


A. Kissing and caressing a woman other that the wife is totally haram in Islam, and is a major sin. Although it does not fall within the sin of adultery which brings about the punishment, it nevertheless, is a punishable offence that falls within ‘discretionary punishment’ which will normally be implemented by the Qazi in an Islamic state. In the context of the hadith, it falls within the sin of adultery since the Prophet (SAS) said, ‘the hands also commit adultery, and its adultery is the act of touching’. Your hands have certainly sinned and touched a woman who was not lawful to you, hence, the Prophet (SAS) has referred to this sin as adultery. So, this act is totally haram and as a Muslim, you must refrain from it.

With respect to what options there are for your situation, the shariah has given the allowance to marry another woman with whom you can fulfil your desires in a halal manner. There will be no sin upon you if you do this. This however, should not be only for the purpose of fulfilling your passions. Instead, you must be committed to her as a husband and she will enjoy the same rights, facilities and position as your first wife. You will therefore be required to treat her in a just and equal manner as you treat your first wife.


And Allah knows best.

 

[Adil]

Covering the head for women is compulsory in Islam for all females who have reached the age of puberty. This law is established from the Holy Quran and the authentic teachings of the Prophet (s.a.s).Covering the head outside salaah is also compulsory and is not only required for salaah. As such, whenever a woman leaves her home to go to the grocery or any other place, she must cover herself properly, including her head.

In this regard, the Holy Quran states, 'And say to the believing women that they must lower their gaze and guard their private parts, and must not expose their beauty (adornment) except that which appears thereof, and must place their Khimar (veil, head cover) over their bosoms'. (Sura An Nur Verse 31). This verse of the Holy Quran explains the law regarding the dress code for women and is not specific for salaah. According to the reliable commentators of the Holy Quran, the words, 'except that which appears thereof' refers to the face and the hands up to the wrist (as evident from the statement of the great companion Abdullah Ibn Abbas (r.a)). The verse therefore means that a woman is commanded to cover her entire body with the allowance to leave her face and hands up to the wrists exposed. This is also evident from the sound traditions of the Prophet (s.a.s) as recorded in many books of Ahadith. In this respect, the great commentator of the Holy Quran, Hafiz Ibn Jareer At Tabari has narrated that Ibn Juraij has narrated from Aishah (r.a.) that she said, 'My niece visited me and then the Prophet (s.a.s) came to my room. When he entered, he turned his face. Upon this, I said, 'O Messenger of Allah, she is my niece and only a girl'. The Prophet (s.a.s) said, 'When a girl reaches the age of puberty, it is not permissible for her that she exposes (herself) except her face and this, and then he pointed to the hands until a little beneath the wrists'. (Tafser At Tabari vol.18 pg 142).

The above tradition shows that Aishah's niece was not in salaah, nor was she going for salaah. Instead, it was a matter of the proper way of dressing for a woman which was connected to her at all times except when she is at home in her private chambers. The Tradition also shows that covering the head is essential.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Geneva, Swiss, SunSans-Regular]And Allah knows best.
[/FONT]

 

[Penumbra]

If Islamic men have a problem with female beauty, let them wear blindfolds. Don't force others to bend to your religious viewpoints.

 

[beenie]

the Qur'anic verse regarding the "khimar" is highly interpretive. most people feel the hijab is required based on the additional words put in parenthesis and Hadith. see how Adil's post he has "khimar" (veil, head covering)...this is seen everywhere. Hadith are quite interpretive as well.

i don't think wearing a hijab:

a) makes you a better Muslim (a sentiment that emulates throughout the Muslim community;

b) protects from the stares of men. i've seen many women with hijab be stared at, for the eyes and face are equally beautiful;

c) hijab is more than a headscarf, it's an attitude and presentation of yourself as well. scarves, etc. are just cloth;

d) i'd love to see all the men who feel that the hijab "helps" them keep their weak eyes off of the lustrous hair of women don a hijab for one week every time they step out of their house...and when someone enters their house from outside of the "mehram". they must wear this garment while performing housework, caring for children (who love to pull on headscarves), and while playing ANY sport...and i do mean any.

am i saying the hijab isn't required? no. i honestly am torn on the subject. i personally think that if something is SO important to Allah, He wouldn't be so very vague about it.

overall, i'm so damn sick and tired of all the focus being put on women and their responsibilities and dress code, which is HIGHLY subjective (as it ALWAYS is)...while all the men get a free pass. hell, if a man is staring at me, i MUST not be covered enough.

doesn't our current state as Muslims have much bigger fish to fry? how about we focus on making ourselves more respected in the world's view. if we act like we're instructed to do so, then perhaps the hijab, etc. will be more tolerated around the world as well.

edit: before all my fellow Muslims jump on me and insist that the hijab is 1000% REQUIRED in Islam, understand this: do all Muslims have to agree on everything in order to be a "good" Muslim? do we not allow for some levity when it comes to defining modesty? Islam is actually quite a simple religion if you stick to the Qur'an...there are very few rules actually stipulated. we people are never satisfied and we add all sorts of issues where there are none.

 

[Octavia156]

Now, Islam recognizes the power of sex, and instead of letting it run wild and run a man's life, provides means for him bring this force under control. For Islam wants to elevate a man from being a slave to his baser desires to loftier ideals goals. Firstly Islam tells men not to stare at women, nor freely mingle with them. This limits the chances of a man and woman being able to start a romantic relationship. Women are also told to wear the veil, to help facilitate this ordinance. The most attractive part of a woman is her hair. A bald woman is the biggest turn-off, and thus Islam tells woman to cover their hair when in public, so as not to tempt men and to help remind them of their duty to control their gazes.

This is the gist of the answer. The matter invariably turns to a question of women's rights and women should be allowed to wear what they want, men should control themselves, etc. Islam does not allow this. Islam acknowledges that a society can only work if everyone helps each other, and a pious society will only be able to stand if everyone works to help each other. The Quran says that believing men and women are friends of each other. Do friends devilishly tempt each other by displaying their charms to each other, tempting the other to break a commandment of God? No, friends help each other, facilitate ease for the other in reaching their goals, and a muslims goal is always to reach Allah. Sexual attraction to someone who is not "legal" for you in Islam (or halal) gives you no benefits. None. Instead, it merely causes you to burn on the inside, and incites you to sin.

I pity Islamic men.

In the West women are free to use whatever powers they possess, and our men have had to learn to control themselves.
Women in the West don't get stared at.... unless they want to get stared at :flirt:


Those men who can't are often pitied, ridiculed and despised.

We don't have a society where we need to help our men out by covering up. I don't need to do my male friends a social favour by covering myself - because they've learned to appreciate mine and all female beauty around without being controlled by their lusts.

In the West we enjoy complete sexual liberty, we enjoy beauty in all forms and we as a society embrace the Power of Sex equally, and take responsibility for our own actions without laying blame on others.

If women want to cover themselves for whatever reason fine.

If women have to cover themselves because they live amongst men who are still slaves of their animal nature - unacceptable. We're not in those dark ages any more, well we're not.

 

[jmvizanko]

You may not have been put to trouble by your pre-marital actions (at least, not in your mind).

No, its not just "in my mind.". Just because your religion dictates that I'm wrong does not mean that I am.

 

[YmirGF]

the Qur'anic verse regarding the "khimar" is highly interpretive. most people feel the hijab is required based on the additional words put in parenthesis and Hadith. see how Adil's post he has "khimar" (veil, head covering)...this is seen everywhere. Hadith are quite interpretive as well.

I agree. Everything I have read on the subject seems to be interpretive. The only thing I noted in the Qur'an is the injunction to dress modestly. Even there, however, one could argue over what sense "modest" is meant in. It could be a figure of speech. It could be literal. It could mean little more like our mother's telling us when we were kids to wear a hat in the hot summertime or to wear our jacket's in the winter. In that sense, modest could simply mean "common sense".

i don't think wearing a hijab:

a) makes you a better Muslim (a sentiment that emulates throughout the Muslim community;

The hadith narrative goes back to the time of Abu Bakr. Abu didn't like the way some men were looking at Muslim women and reported his misgivings to Muhammad. Quicker than you can say, Allahua Akbar, the ayat to dress moderately was "brought down". Rather convenient timing, I must say. Abu Bakr was happy and Muslim women have suffered ever since. Heaven forbid that Abu didn't just admonish the men who upset him by saying that they were lecherous louts and should not stare at a beautiful woman. Sometimes it is better to confront behavior rather than make rules attempting to circumvent it.

b) protects from the stares of men. i've seen many women with hijab be stared at, for the eyes and face are equally beautiful;

Indeed, all the while writing off male behavior as mere weakness. How strange is the reasoning that states that a woman must cover herself up to be worthy of respect.

c) hijab is more than a headscarf, it's an attitude and presentation of yourself as well. scarves, etc. are just cloth;

Exactly. It's a sign of imagined moral and spiritual superiority compared to those around them.

d) i'd love to see all the men who feel that the hijab "helps" them keep their weak eyes off of the lustrous hair of women don a hijab for one week every time they step out of their house...and when someone enters their house from outside of the "mehram". they must wear this garment while performing housework, caring for children (who love to pull on headscarves), and while playing ANY sport...and i do mean any.

What? Put restrictions on men? Teach them manners? Oh, Ssainhu, come now.

am i saying the hijab isn't required? no. i honestly am torn on the subject. i personally think that if something is SO important to Allah, He wouldn't be so very vague about it.

That is why Muslims need the herds of MALE scholars to clarify these issues. *smiles sweetly*

overall, i'm so damn sick and tired of all the focus being put on women and their responsibilities and dress code, which is HIGHLY subjective (as it ALWAYS is)...while all the men get a free pass. hell, if a man is staring at me, i MUST not be covered enough.

And obviously a tart, looking for easy sex.

doesn't our current state as Muslims have much bigger fish to fry? how about we focus on making ourselves more respected in the world's view. if we act like we're instructed to do so, then perhaps the hijab, etc. will be more tolerated around the world as well.

How dare you bring pragmatic thinking into this discussion. This is a very important topic WOMEN NEED to know about. *rolls eyes*

edit: before all my fellow Muslims jump on me and insist that the hijab is 1000% REQUIRED in Islam, understand this: do all Muslims have to agree on everything in order to be a "good" Muslim? do we not allow for some levity when it comes to defining modesty? Islam is actually quite a simple religion if you stick to the Qur'an...there are very few rules actually stipulated. we people are never satisfied and we add all sorts of issues where there are none.

That is part of the problem with the "consensus opinion" format. One rarely gets what one wants because one has to cobble together an idea that is acceptable to everyone. That is why, for example, there are so many "non-binding" resolutions made by the UN and its agencies. People will agree to anything if it doesn't affect them.

Oh and btw... how many FEMALE Muslim scholars have rendered opinions on the hijab....

 

[control.to.win]

In the West women are free to use whatever powers they possess, and our men have had to learn to control themselves.
Women in the West don't get stared at.... unless they want to get stared at :flirt:

Those men who can't are often pitied, ridiculed and despised.

We don't have a society where we need to help our men out by covering up. I don't need to do my male friends a social favour by covering myself - because they've learned to appreciate mine and all female beauty around without being controlled by their lusts.

In the West we enjoy complete sexual liberty, we enjoy beauty in all forms and we as a society embrace the Power of Sex equally, and take responsibility for our own actions without laying blame on others.

If women want to cover themselves for whatever reason fine.

If women have to cover themselves because they live amongst men who are still slaves of their animal nature - unacceptable. We're not in those dark ages any more, well we're not.

I don't know what kind of world you guys are living in. I've heard posts on "sexual freedom" , "western men are more controlled in their passions", "we have taken responsibility for our own freedoms", etc. Basically, we are in complete control of our sexual passions, and no amount of temptation by either sex can cause us to ever do something we regret.

Not one statement made has been true. And it reeks of lack of social responsibility. Western society is not all that well off. Leaving aside the Hijab, Western society suffers from a lack of any restraint in sexuality, with major consequences, all of which you are oblivious to.

Look at the numbers for single mothers in western countries. The numbers are only going up as sexual freedom is increasing. Abortions from unwanted pregnacies are also a reality to face in a promiscuous society. STD's are also a problem, and the problem has exploded in third world countries, emulating "western sexual freedom". AIDS would not spread in a society based on marriage-only conjugal relationships, and you say you take complete responsibility without laying blame on others? Tell that to anyone who has been infected with an STD. Sexual promiscuity is also linked to alcohol, which has it's own problems and complications.
These are just the Health problems. I haven't taken into consideration the natural heart-ache of break-ups. Nor how promiscuity, so ingrained in a sense of sexual freedom, is such a threat to marriages.
And above all else, how it detracts from the time one is to spend on reaching his or her ultimate goal in life: developing a true and living relationship with God.

Western men aren't controlled by lust? Who are you kidding? Walk into any bar or ask your boyfriend what conversations go on in every locker room.

The entire philosophy of Islamic pardah (covering) is based on curbing these baser desires in both sexes. The concept of dating is probably to blame why a westerner would refuse to cover up. If a woman knew her partner would be chosen for her (with her approval), she would have no need to try and go out and look as alluring as possible. From here, you can finish the rest of the chain in the argument...

 

[Penumbra]

I don't know what kind of world you guys are living in. I've heard posts on "sexual freedom" , "western men are more controlled in their passions", "we have taken responsibility for our own freedoms", etc. Basically, we are in complete control of our sexual passions, and no amount of temptation by either sex can cause us to ever do something we regret.

Not one statement made has been true. And it reeks of lack of social responsibility. Western society is not all that well off. Leaving aside the Hijab, Western society suffers from a lack of any restraint in sexuality, with major consequences, all of which you are oblivious to.

Look at the numbers for single mothers in western countries. The numbers are only going up as sexual freedom is increasing. Abortions from unwanted pregnacies are also a reality to face in a promiscuous society. STD's are also a problem, and the problem has exploded in third world countries, emulating "western sexual freedom". AIDS would not spread in a society based on marriage-only conjugal relationships, and you say you take complete responsibility without laying blame on others? Tell that to anyone who has been infected with an STD. Sexual promiscuity is also linked to alcohol, which has it's own problems and complications.
These are just the Health problems. I haven't taken into consideration the natural heart-ache of break-ups. Nor how promiscuity, so ingrained in a sense of sexual freedom, is such a threat to marriages.
And above all else, how it detracts from the time one is to spend on reaching his or her ultimate goal in life: developing a true and living relationship with God.

Western men aren't controlled by lust? Who are you kidding? Walk into any bar or ask your boyfriend what conversations go on in every locker room.

The entire philosophy of Islamic pardah (covering) is based on curbing these baser desires in both sexes.

So basically, what you're saying, is to bend society to address the lowest common denominator. Make everyone wear things so that the weak among them can ignore their problems rather than address them. My circle of friends are doing quite well as they are.

By getting people to cover up, the problem is being ignored rather than addressed. If people have an issue where they are obsessed with lust by seeing another person's body, then covering it up is just going to reinforce their notion that the body is some secret and lustful thing.

People don't have the right to tell other people how to live their lives, especially as related to some religious view. If you want to spend your time searching for your god, then go for it. But if other people want to search for other gods, or not search for any gods, then let them go for it.

The concept of dating is probably to blame why a westerner would refuse to cover up. If a woman knew her partner would be chosen for her (with her approval), she would have no need to try and go out and look as alluring as possible. From here, you can finish the rest of the chain in the argument...

Not really. I refuse to cover up because there's not a good reason to. I dress how I dress because it's comfortable and because the body is nothing to be ashamed of or to hide. Why would I cover my hair in hot weather?

I'm pretty much "live and let live" about religion. People can believe whatever they want. But when they cross the line, and begin to try to fit inaccurate beliefs onto the rest of society that does not hold their views, then I will take a stand.

 

[Smoke]

Islam is a religion that puts a premium on purity. Purity of mind, body and soul. And anything that interferes with this purity (i.e. able to concentrate on God and worship Him and keep your priorities straight), Islam discourages, prohibits or tells you ways to go around such problems.

The main issue here is that Islam does not allow pre-marital conjugal relationships. The wisdom in this commandment is not, I think, lost on anyone. So, how to make sure this does not happen is what the entire issue is based on.

Now, this being the case, let us move onto Women. There is not difference between men and women is regards to their spiritual worth or reward from God. Each is judged equally based on their beliefs and actions in this world. That being said, onto the veil.

It is general knowledge that the more powerful a force, the more precaution must be taken to safeguard oneself from it. In the case of women, that force is the biological force of Sex. Extremely Powerful, to say the least. The force that ensures our continuation as a species would not be effective were it not so dominant in our psyche.

Now, Islam recognizes the power of sex, and instead of letting it run wild and run a man's life, provides means for him bring this force under control. For Islam wants to elevate a man from being a slave to his baser desires to loftier ideals goals. Firstly Islam tells men not to stare at women, nor freely mingle with them. This limits the chances of a man and woman being able to start a romantic relationship. Women are also told to wear the veil, to help facilitate this ordinance. The most attractive part of a woman is her hair. A bald woman is the biggest turn-off, and thus Islam tells woman to cover their hair when in public, so as not to tempt men and to help remind them of their duty to control their gazes.

This is the gist of the answer. The matter invariably turns to a question of women's rights and women should be allowed to wear what they want, men should control themselves, etc. Islam does not allow this. Islam acknowledges that a society can only work if everyone helps each other, and a pious society will only be able to stand if everyone works to help each other. The Quran says that believing men and women are friends of each other. Do friends devilishly tempt each other by displaying their charms to each other, tempting the other to break a commandment of God? No, friends help each other, facilitate ease for the other in reaching their goals, and a muslims goal is always to reach Allah. Sexual attraction to someone who is not "legal" for you in Islam (or halal) gives you no benefits. None. Instead, it merely causes you to burn on the inside, and incites you to sin.

Excellent explanation, from which we learn that Muslim women have no sexual desires, since men are not similarly directed to cover themselves, and that Muslim men have no self-control and do not choose to obey the commands of Allah, placing the responsibility for their own obedience on women instead of on themselves.

Very attractive religion.

 

[beenie]

I don't know what kind of world you guys are living in. I've heard posts on "sexual freedom" , "western men are more controlled in their passions", "we have taken responsibility for our own freedoms", etc. Basically, we are in complete control of our sexual passions, and no amount of temptation by either sex can cause us to ever do something we regret.

Not one statement made has been true. And it reeks of lack of social responsibility. Western society is not all that well off. Leaving aside the Hijab, Western society suffers from a lack of any restraint in sexuality, with major consequences, all of which you are oblivious to.

Look at the numbers for single mothers in western countries. The numbers are only going up as sexual freedom is increasing. Abortions from unwanted pregnacies are also a reality to face in a promiscuous society. STD's are also a problem, and the problem has exploded in third world countries, emulating "western sexual freedom". AIDS would not spread in a society based on marriage-only conjugal relationships, and you say you take complete responsibility without laying blame on others? Tell that to anyone who has been infected with an STD. Sexual promiscuity is also linked to alcohol, which has it's own problems and complications.
These are just the Health problems. I haven't taken into consideration the natural heart-ache of break-ups. Nor how promiscuity, so ingrained in a sense of sexual freedom, is such a threat to marriages.
And above all else, how it detracts from the time one is to spend on reaching his or her ultimate goal in life: developing a true and living relationship with God.

Western men aren't controlled by lust? Who are you kidding? Walk into any bar or ask your boyfriend what conversations go on in every locker room.

The entire philosophy of Islamic pardah (covering) is based on curbing these baser desires in both sexes. The concept of dating is probably to blame why a westerner would refuse to cover up. If a woman knew her partner would be chosen for her (with her approval), she would have no need to try and go out and look as alluring as possible. From here, you can finish the rest of the chain in the argument...

are you suggesting that having women wear a hijab and/or burqa will solve the problem of lustrous men? what world are YOU living in? once again, hijab/burqa is JUST CLOTH without the aura a person presents. this can be said for men AND for women. why should women pay a price of discomfort for mens' supposed weakness? i find some of these comments offensive to men as well as women, and i'm a MUSLIM.

modesty is not only what you wear (nothing wrong with being modest)...it's also an attitude. i see women wearing hijab that are more suggestive than the woman in the bikini. when will men own up and take responsibility? turn away, walk away...be a MAN for God's sake.

i don't know what country you are from, but i can guarantee you STDs, abortions, drinking, promiscuity, etc. all exist in "Muslim" countries. most of the time it's swept under the rug to protect family honor, but if you try and tell us that it doesn't happen among the women who wear hijab, then you are delusional.

Excellent explanation, from which we learn that Muslim women have no sexual desires, since men are not similarly directed to cover themselves, and that Muslim men have no self-control and do not choose to obey the commands of Allah, placing the responsibility for their own obedience on women instead of on themselves.

Very attractive religion.

well, the whole idea behind this is debatable. not everyone feels this way; there are millions and millions of Muslim women who don't wear the hijab, and they are just as "Muslim" (if not more in some cases) than others.

yes indeed, women are visually attracted to men as well. God forbid we are recognized as such

do we wear our religion on our heads or in our hearts? that's what counts. IMO.

 

[Octavia156]

I don't know what kind of world you guys are living in. I've heard posts on "sexual freedom" , "western men are more controlled in their passions", "we have taken responsibility for our own freedoms", etc. Basically, we are in complete control of our sexual passions, and no amount of temptation by either sex can cause us to ever do something we regret.

These are not my posts, so don't put word in my mouth.

Western men have to be more controlled in their passions because our society does not tolerate those who aren't.

Yes sometimes when we aren't not in control of our sexual passions we do things we regret But we have no choice but to take full responsibility for our actions because our society does not allow us to lay blame on others.

The entire philosophy of Islamic pardah (covering) is based on curbing these baser desires in both sexes. The concept of dating is probably to blame why a westerner would refuse to cover up. If a woman knew her partner would be chosen for her (with her approval), she would have no need to try and go out and look as alluring as possible. From here, you can finish the rest of the chain in the argument...

You seem to mis-understand women.
Many of us like looking alluring.

In the West we celebrate sex and many see sexual satisfaction as a very important part of having a happy life. Women in the West are free to pick and choose their men until they find the one that satisfies them, just as men are free also.
Its an even plane. Both sexes have to work just as hard to attract each other, and if a woman isn't happy she is free to leave without her scoiety thinking any less of her.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Oh yippee. Scapegoating rears it's ugly head again in the OP.

Men can't control themselves nor be trusted. Women don't naturally have desires themselves that are visually stimulated. The basis for a proper society is controlling sexuality...and women are shouldered with all the responsibility of keeping a sexually pure society. Homosexuality doesn't exist. Blah blah blah.

Yeah right.

I always love to hear expectations - religiously written - for men in regards to how they should act around women in order to maintain a sexually pure society.

Oh, and "not rape a woman" isn't a good enough answer. Women aren't told to "not be a golddigger" when it comes to how to treat a man right. What are men expected to do in order to maintain a sexually pure society - specifically for men only?

 

[control.to.win]

again I explained this in my very first post. The concept of Hijab is just one part of a much larger concept of chastity in Islam. You cannot just pop on a hijab and ignore the rest of the teaching. If there are sexuality problems in Muslim countries, you must provide proof that it is at the same level as in western countries. And if there are, it shows those people have not been true to the tenets of Islamic chastity.

Noone can force anyone to wear a hijab. If you don't believe in Islam, who am I to try and force a hijab on you. "There is no compulsion in faith", is what the Qur'an tells us. But if you say you are a muslim, then you are honour-bound to stick to the tenets of the faith you claim you believe in.

As far as why men are not required to cover up when outside and women are, this plays into the topic the respective areas of activity of both men and women. This is for another thread. But it's true that Islam places more trust in women in controlling their sexual desires than it does in men. Rightly so, I would say.

The islamic commandments tell us to restrain our eyes and any other avenue of temptation. This applies both to men and women, both have been separately addressed in the Qur'an. Only after this has the hijab been instructed. So it's not shifting the blame of the lust of man to women. The hijab has many different benefits in the context of this larger islamic teaching on chastity. Here are some of them:

1. The first commandment is to restrain yourselves. This is an internal protection against temptation: your own power of restraint. The second is the hijab. In case of a moment of weakness, a visual stimulus is provided to remind a man of his own duty of chastity. A hijab then, can be seen as a type of physical barrier meant to reinforce the internal barrier God has told us to build up in ourselves.

2. When a woman willingly puts on the hijab, she is reinforcing her own belief with physical action that firstly, she is obeying a law of God. Secondly, by covering her own beauty (head scarf and not wearing revealing clothing) she is shifting her mindset that "I must be beautiful to fit into society" to "there are other, more important things, that I should be focused on". A rather important point, one that is lost on many women who obsess over beauty.

3. A hijab protects a woman from unwanted stares from men on the streets. If she wants to be stared at by random guys on the street as an object of sex and arousal, then she has no business wearing the hijab, nor has she understood the teachings of Islam.

That being said, every woman wants to feel beautiful and appreciated. Which is why she is free to show her beauty to her husband and household. But what point is there in seeking to attract others to yourself in such a manner?

4. In a larger social context, which I emphasized on before, the hijab reinforces a social sense of piety and value of character over physical charm. This is invaluable in teaching younger members of the community of the importance and use of the hijab, and provides another reason for the community to wear to hijab: social pressure. Not a bad thing, when the pressure is for the good of the people involved.

5. Also on a societal scale, seeing something as the norm of a society would discourage people from trying to go against it. I speak here of against the the philosophy of the hijab, or all the islamic values of piety. In a sense, the hijab provides a concrete image of piety in the society. With this view before them, people who may not be as pious or religious as the rest of the society (there are always some) would be hard pressed in trying to indulge their illicit sexual desires.

These are a few points that come to mind. Allah knows best.

As to the full picture of Islamic views on sexuality, why dating, promiscuity are forbidden and the roles of men and women in society....a much, much larger topic, one I purposely have tried to avoid, for this is for another thread.

 

[Sahar]

again I explained this in my very first post. The concept of Hijab is just one part of a much larger concept of chastity in Islam. You cannot just pop on a hijab and ignore the rest of the teaching. If there are sexuality problems in Muslim countries, you must provide proof that it is at the same level as in western countries. And if there are, it shows those people have not been true to the tenets of Islamic chastity.

Noone can force anyone to wear a hijab. If you don't believe in Islam, who am I to try and force a hijab on you. "There is no compulsion in faith", is what the Qur'an tells us. But if you say you are a muslim, then you are honour-bound to stick to the tenets of the faith you claim you believe in.

As far as why men are not required to cover up when outside and women are, this plays into the topic the respective areas of activity of both men and women. This is for another thread. But it's true that Islam places more trust in women in controlling their sexual desires than it does in men. Rightly so, I would say.

The islamic commandments tell us to restrain our eyes and any other avenue of temptation. This applies both to men and women, both have been separately addressed in the Qur'an. Only after this has the hijab been instructed. So it's not shifting the blame of the lust of man to women. The hijab has many different benefits in the context of this larger islamic teaching on chastity. Here are some of them:

1. The first commandment is to restrain yourselves. This is an internal protection against temptation: your own power of restraint. The second is the hijab. In case of a moment of weakness, a visual stimulus is provided to remind a man of his own duty of chastity. A hijab then, can be seen as a type of physical barrier meant to reinforce the internal barrier God has told us to build up in ourselves.

2. When a woman willingly puts on the hijab, she is reinforcing her own belief with physical action that firstly, she is obeying a law of God. Secondly, by covering her own beauty (head scarf and not wearing revealing clothing) she is shifting her mindset that "I must be beautiful to fit into society" to "there are other, more important things, that I should be focused on". A rather important point, one that is lost on many women who obsess over beauty.

3. A hijab protects a woman from unwanted stares from men on the streets. If she wants to be stared at by random guys on the street as an object of sex and arousal, then she has no business wearing the hijab, nor has she understood the teachings of Islam.

That being said, every woman wants to feel beautiful and appreciated. Which is why she is free to show her beauty to her husband and household. But what point is there in seeking to attract others to yourself in such a manner?

4. In a larger social context, which I emphasized on before, the hijab reinforces a social sense of piety and value of character over physical charm. This is invaluable in teaching younger members of the community of the importance and use of the hijab, and provides another reason for the community to wear to hijab: social pressure. Not a bad thing, when the pressure is for the good of the people involved.

5. Also on a societal scale, seeing something as the norm of a society would discourage people from trying to go against it. I speak here of against the the philosophy of the hijab, or all the islamic values of piety. In a sense, the hijab provides a concrete image of piety in the society. With this view before them, people who may not be as pious or religious as the rest of the society (there are always some) would be hard pressed in trying to indulge their illicit sexual desires.

These are a few points that come to mind. Allah knows best.

As to the full picture of Islamic views on sexuality, why dating, promiscuity are forbidden and the roles of men and women in society....a much, much larger topic, one I purposely have tried to avoid, for this is for another thread.

This is a very good post. Except I don't know what you mean by this: "But it's true that Islam places more trust in women in controlling their sexual desires than it does in men"

The most attractive part of a woman is her hair.

Not necessarily at all. Muslim women are required to cover the body except hand and face. The veil is not about hair only.

 

[control.to.win]

I don't know what you mean by this: "But it's true that Islam places more trust in women in controlling their sexual desires than it does in men"

Just pointing to one reason why men are not required to cover up in front of women. But, like I said, just one reason.