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Islam fights free speech

The_Fisher_King

Trying to bring myself ever closer to Allah
Premium Member
This is fantastic! So in the past I've tried "Islamist" as a term to describe conservative forms of Islam. I'm not at all attached to a particular term, but it would be great for the world if we could agree to a term for "that subset of Muslims that hold those more conservative beliefs". Any ideas? Would you be okay with "Islamist" ?

How about 'conservative forms of Islam' or perhaps 'Islamic conservatism'? 'Islamism' as a term has already been taken to refer to one particular brand - or rather set of brands - of Islam. And indeed many such forms of Islam are pretty recent phenomena or even a kind of reformation within Islam (although not, I would say, the kind that should be encouraged!). Many of my more conservative fellow Muslims don't buy into this brand of Islam at all. They may be more morally conservative (as individuals), but they aren't sympathetic to the kinds of political or militant movements that are typically labelled as 'Islamist'. But always keep in mind that there are many degrees of Islamic conservatism too.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
The claim is often made that Islamism / extremist Islam is not representative of Islam as a whole.

It seems to me that the support for such a claim is awfully lacking.

While the actual dangerous actions are certainly not statistically common, the ideologies that encourage them are eerily typical of Islamic thought as a whole - or at least, there seems to be a dearth of evidence to the contrary and a lot for it.
 

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
:D
You have medical problems? I didn't know, Flankerl. We have our differences, but I do feel for you. Sorry to know. And no, I'm serious. I'd never make sarcasm about such a thing.
I thought she meant, she is doctor lol .
 

The_Fisher_King

Trying to bring myself ever closer to Allah
Premium Member
The claim is often made that Islamism / extremist Islam is not representative of Islam as a whole.

It seems to me that the support for such a claim is awfully lacking.

While the actual dangerous actions are certainly not statistically common, the ideologies that encourage them are eerily typical of Islamic thought as a whole - or at least, there seems to be a dearth of evidence to the contrary and a lot for it.

It depends I think on how one is defining 'Islamism' or 'extremist Islam'. How would you define these terms?

I must say that I am uncomfortable with the claim that any form of Islam is representative of Islam. Islam comes in so many, often very diverse forms (as indeed do many other religions).
 

The Emperor of Mankind

Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
I will make another exemple :
Again when you make a tournaments, don't blame others to join in.

Don't blame other people for choosing to join in? o_O Just as there wouldn't be a tournament without people organising one, there also wouldn't be a tournament without willing participants - you need both. Blame can be shared around, y'know.
 

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
Don't blame other people for choosing to join in? o_O Just as there wouldn't be a tournament without people organising one, there also wouldn't be a tournament without willing participants - you need both. Blame can be shared around, y'know.
I do blame them of course , but I blame the source of the problem first, which called and ecourage them to join in .

West supporting rebels (terrorists) civil wars,Russia is always support authorities , I do believe it's indirect war between West and Russia (Afghnistan,Libya,Iraq,Libya,Syria), and victimes are Muslims.
 

icehorse

......unaffiliated...... anti-dogmatist
Premium Member
How about 'conservative forms of Islam' or perhaps 'Islamic conservatism'? 'Islamism' as a term has already been taken to refer to one particular brand - or rather set of brands - of Islam. And indeed many such forms of Islam are pretty recent phenomena or even a kind of reformation within Islam (although not, I would say, the kind that should be encouraged!). Many of my more conservative fellow Muslims don't buy into this brand of Islam at all. They may be more morally conservative (as individuals), but they aren't sympathetic to the kinds of political or militant movements that are typically labelled as 'Islamist'. But always keep in mind that there are many degrees of Islamic conservatism too.

I want to echo Luis on this. When I read the Quran it strikes me that the "conservative form" you mention is the most in keeping with the Quran's many instructions. Don't get me wrong, I'm heartened whenever I talk to a Muslim that's not "conservative" as you say, but my sense is that it's you guys that are in the minority.
 

The Emperor of Mankind

Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
1- I bring Holocaust just analyse the double stand about freedom of speech in West.

And as has been explained to you countless times elsewhere, there are legitimate reasons for banning Holocaust Denial stemming from historical events and the religious & political views that informed said denial. Muslims just want people to stop criticising Islam because it hurts their feelings.
 

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
And as has been explained to you countless times elsewhere, there are legitimate reasons for banning Holocaust Denial stemming from historical events and the religious & political views that informed said denial. Muslims just want people to stop criticising Islam because it hurts their feelings.
I find it hypocrisy and double stand that claiming freedom of speech and ban it in same time.
 

The Emperor of Mankind

Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
I find it hypocrisy and double stand that claiming freedom of speech and ban it in same time.

Because you either don't understand or refuse to understand that you're using a definition nobody else is using. Nobody apart from you is talking about 'free speech with no barriers whatsoever'. We're talking about 'free speech with reasonable limits'.
 

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
Because you either don't understand or refuse to understand that you're using a definition nobody else is using. Nobody apart from you is talking about 'free speech with no barriers whatsoever'. We're talking about 'free speech with reasonable limits'.
I do understand it,I consider it double stand and hypocrisy.

What else "freedom of speech" restricted in Europe ?
 

Smart_Guy

...
Premium Member
I thought she meant, she is doctor lol .

Oh! "Medical reasons" sounds more like medical problems than medical studies. My bad.

I'll edit out that part of my post then.

By the way, that green smiley is not part of it. It was part of the quote prior to it. Please remove it before she thinks I'm making fun of her and gets me in trouble.
 

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
Oh! "Medical reasons" sounds more like medical problems than medical studies. My bad.

I'll edit out that part of my post then.

By the way, that green smiley is not part of it. It was part of the quote prior to it. Please remove it before she thinks I'm making fun of her and gets me in trouble.
You thought in bad side ,and my thoughts was in good side :p


Why you affraid her?!! she is not your mom :D
 
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LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
It depends I think on how one is defining 'Islamism' or 'extremist Islam'. How would you define these terms?

The telltale signs are the expectations of differentiated treatment according to belief stance; of privilege of theistic claims over more concrete social and scientific concerns; and of bending of laws and customs once Muslim majorities are attained in some specific region.

I must say that I am uncomfortable with the claim that any form of Islam is representative of Islam. Islam comes in so many, often very diverse forms (as indeed do many other religions).

That is both true and ultimately misleading. Islam is remarkably heterogeneous when confronted with its own hopes, but remarkably homogeneous when contrasted with most other ideologies and religions. I don't think there is any other organized movement with comparable numbers and insistence in isolationism and differentiated treatment. Christianity is bigger, but it has largely given up on expecting privilege of treatment.
 

Quagmire

Imaginary talking monkey
Staff member
Premium Member
1 - I wish I knew to which post you were referring.

You can link a horse to material, but you can't make him read.

2 - When did I EVER hint that anyone should shut up?

I don't think "hint" is the right word.

More like try to coerce, as in: "I can't refute what you said, so I'm going to try to make it look like you said something else, or point to implications that aren't actually there in order to make you look bad in the eyes of people too simple-minded to recognize the game I'm playing [my target audience anyway]. That'll teach you to interfere with my propagandizing."

It's a cute little game that never gets old.
 

faroukfarouk

Active Member
The Catcher in the Rye – JD Salinger
Lady Chatterley’s Lover – DH Lawrence
Brave New World – Aldous Huxley
Tropic of Cancer – Henry Miller
Lolita – Vladmir Nabokov
Ulysses – James Joyce
The Grapes of Wrath – John Steinback
The Well of Loneliness – Radclyffe Hall
American Psycho – Brett Easton Ellis

The above books are banned by the free speech Western world.
Why?
What kind of freedom are we talking about?
 

Smart_Guy

...
Premium Member
You thought in bad side ,and my thoughts was in good side :p

Why you affraid from here?!! she is not your mom :D

I can't say why I'm afraid of her. I'm shy
t1802.gif
:D

No really, I just don't want her to think I was being rude and disrespectful.
 
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