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"Islam" Means "Submission," Not "Peace" — Explanation of a Subtle Connection

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
The more media introduce Islam as bad religion the more Muslims will do that.
I don't know what you mean by "that".

In any case, I guess we will see, since it seems clear that the grace period of the media towards Islaam is bound to end fairly soon.

If you think the media presentes Islaam under a bad light... I fully expect that you will end up very disappointed by the years to come.


Do u know the meaning of Muslims'greeting?
سلام
It seems to be pronounced "Salaam", meaning both "greetings" and "Peace", and it is of course half of the traditional Muslim exchange of greetings.

I am not sure why you are mentioning that now. As a reminder that most Muslims mean well, perhaps?

Is one of the name of Allah

Which means a Muslim that say سلام to u he wanna say u r my friend and I'm completely harmless and that hi and hello don't have this meaning.
Well, sure.

Islaam very consistently insists on the need to extend good will towards others. At least as long as they acknowledge Allah as the only God.

Persian and Arabic are full of removed words in a sentence.
As I told Islam is peace they wanna say Islam is a religion of peace. It's very nonsense that Muslims try to translate Islam literally for others. They have a purpose.

The purpose being avoiding unwarranted perceptions of Muslims as liars. That is not "nonsense".

Quite on the contrary, it is a badly needed effort in these times of uncertainty and mistrust towards Muslims.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
There was not any need to bother.
When Muslims say Islam is peace they wanna say Islam is a religion of peace

That's just because they wanna oppose media in west that introduce Islam as a religion of violation

Saying the religion itself teaches peace is different from saying that the word itself means peace. One is arguable based on doctrinal interpretations; the other is just a semantic falsehood, and I don't think falsehoods do mutual understanding between Muslims and non-Muslims any favors.

I think whether Islam is peace or not isn't so important that forces Muslims to translate it from Arabic into English rather as I told they have a purpose of doing it.

To soften people's hearts about Islam

Don't you think there are better ways to "soften people's hearts about Islam" that don't involve spreading misinformation?
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
submission to love, to allah, is peace. it isn't war

There is definitely an argument to be made that submission doesn't have to be a negative thing in and of itself, but the main point of the OP is to explain a conflation of two words that mean very different things regardless of what submission would or wouldn't entail in a religious context.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
So.......... what?
OK, I think I got it within the simplicity of :
Salaam = Peace
Islam = Submission

The most fundamental fact for any person is that they, (whether liking it or not) will submit, either to their God or Nature. They can take their pick. There are no exceptions.

Try asking a Christian, or an Atheist, or a Buddhist what the name of their 'way' means and you will get a score of varying answers from each one; then you could pick holes in 'em all.

What Islam doesn't need, just now, is a lesson in semantics given that billions of peaceful Muslims are being subjected to the fact that International criminals are murdering thousands in their name.

And so if any Muslim chooses to describe their way as anything connected to Peace then I will acknowledge them.

Were you just getting on the 'bandwagon' here?

That's quite the slippery slope there, given that I didn't even comment in this thread on whether or not I think "submission" in the context of Islam is a negative thing. If you think that merely explaining a semantic fact is "getting on the bandwagon," I'm not sure what to tell you. The teachings of Islam are open to interpretation; a lot of semantic facts aren't. I don't think you'd really say that the meaning of "milk" or "apple" would "get a score of varying answers." They are words that mean what they mean. Simple as that.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
"Islam" Means "Submission," Not "Peace" — Explanation of a Subtle Connection

When one totally, mind and heart , submits to G-d one enters the real peace and one is saved from illusory peace:

Verse (2:112)


Sahih International: Yes [on the contrary], whoever submits his face in Islam to Allah while being a doer of good will have his reward with his Lord. And no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve.

The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Word by Word Grammar, Syntax and Morphology of the Holy Quran

Regards



 

The Emperor of Mankind

Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
If western media were honest and telling lie wasn't piece of cake for them there wasn't any need to do so. I wonder why u call it deceitful

Tuquoque fallacy. Just because "western media" tells lies - and in reality it's only parts of western media that tell lies; other parts won't go near the fact that Muslims commit crimes - doesn't make it okay for Muslims to lie (even if it is through omission). The number of times I've seen Muslims (and those who defend their faith blindly) argue that Islam means peace is... well, I've lost count. The thing is Muslims are encouraged to learn Arabic and be proficient at it so why do they not call out those defending them when it's said by others that 'Islam means peace' when (as DS has clearly demonstrated) it doesn't? Why aren't these people called out for incorrect use of Arabic?

By refusing to correct this error they are compounding it by allowing it to spread. That it has taken a non-Muslim to point this out says a great deal.
 

Servant_of_the_One1

Well-Known Member
Islam means submitting to the Will and Glory of Allah swt.
By doing that a person will be saved by As-Salam( one of 99 names of Allah, it means Source of Peace and Safety) on the day of Judgement from the destructive fire.

130. And who turns away from the religion of Ibrahim (Abraham) (i.e. Islamic Monotheism) except him who befools himself? Truly, We chose him in this world and verily, in the Hereafter he will be among the righteous.

131. When his Lord said to him, "Submit (i.e. be a Muslim)!" He said, "I have submitted myself (as a Muslim) to the Lord of the 'Alamin (mankind, jinns and all that exists)."


132. And this (submission to Allah, Islam) was enjoined by Ibrahim (Abraham) upon his sons and by Ya'qub (Jacob), (saying), "O my sons! Allah has chosen for you the (true) religion, then die not except in the Faith of Islam (as Muslims - Islamic Monotheism)."

133. Or were you witnesses when death approached Ya'qub (Jacob)? When he said unto his sons, "What will you worship after me?" They said, "We shall worship your Ilah (God - Allah), the Ilah (God) of your fathers, Ibrahim (Abraham), Isma'il (Ishmael), Ishaque (Isaac), One Ilah(God), and to Him we submit (in Islam)."


And i love to submit to the Will of the One who created me and everything that exist.
 
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paarsurrey

Veteran Member
"Islam" Means "Submission," Not "Peace" — Explanation of a Subtle Connection

Those who want to go deep in the discussion of the Arabic grammar, they may like to read the following:

Quran Dictionary - س ل م
__
أ ب ت ث ج ح خ د ذ ر ز س ش ص ض ط ظ ع غ ف ق ك ل م ن ه و ي

The triliteral root sīn lām mīm (س ل م) occurs 140 times in the Quran, in 16 derived forms:

  • six times as the form II verb sallama (سَلَّمَ)
  • 22 times as the form IV verb aslama (أَسْلَمَ)
  • 42 times as the nominal salām (سَلَٰم)
  • twice as the noun sullam (سُلَّم)
  • once as the proper noun sil'm (سِّلْم)
  • twice as the noun salm (سَّلْم)
  • five times as the noun salam (سَلَم)
  • twice as the noun salīm (سَلِيم)
  • once as the active participle sālimūn (سَٰلِمُون)
  • three times as the form II verbal noun taslīm (تَسْلِيم)
  • three times as the form II passive participle musallamat (مُّسَلَّمَة)
  • eight times as the form IV verbal noun is'lām (إِسْلَٰم)
  • 39 times as the form IV active participle mus'lim (مُسْلِم)
  • twice as the form IV active participle mus'limāt (مُسْلِمَٰت)
  • once as the form IV active participle mus'limat (مُّسْلِمَة)
  • once as the form X active participle mus'taslimūn (مُسْتَسْلِمُون)
The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Quran Dictionary

The site then provides all the verses of Quran with references and text that contain the the triliteral root sīn lām mīm (س ل م) which occurs 140 times in the Quran.
No compulsion, however.

Regards
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
"Islam" Means "Submission," Not "Peace" — Explanation of a Subtle Connection

When one totally, mind and heart , submits to G-d one enters the real peace and one is saved from illusory peace:

Verse (2:112)


Sahih International: Yes [on the contrary], whoever submits his face in Islam to Allah while being a doer of good will have his reward with his Lord. And no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve.

The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Word by Word Grammar, Syntax and Morphology of the Holy Quran

Regards
One may like to note the words "while being a doer of good will have his reward with his Lord. And no fear will there be concerning them, nor will they grieve."
This reward is in this world and the hereafter.
Does it not denote "peace" and paraphrase it? Please

Regards
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
That's quite the slippery slope there, given that I didn't even comment in this thread on whether or not I think "submission" in the context of Islam is a negative thing. If you think that merely explaining a semantic fact is "getting on the bandwagon," I'm not sure what to tell you.
Your OP title reads 'Islam means 'Submission', not 'Peace'. ' Now that's a negative communication.

The teachings of Islam are open to interpretation; a lot of semantic facts aren't. I don't think you'd really say that the meaning of "milk" or "apple" would "get a score of varying answers." They are words that mean what they mean. Simple as that.
Oh?..... Really?
Let me get this right..... you feel that the meaning of a word like 'Islam' is as simple (in definition) as words such as 'apple' or 'milk'?

It's not that simple. Billions of people recognise the word Islam to mean 'a whole way of life' , and if a Muslim feels that 'Through Submission to Allah' they have come to a spiritually harmonius and peaceful 'place', then their definition is reasonable.

There are too many millions of peaceful Muslims in the World for such a 'semantic fact' to be seen as diplomatic, certainly.
 

interminable

منتظر
I don't know what you mean by "that".

In any case, I guess we will see, since it seems clear that the grace period of the media towards Islaam is bound to end fairly soon.

If you think the media presentes Islaam under a bad light... I fully expect that you will end up very disappointed by the years to come.



It seems to be pronounced "Salaam", meaning both "greetings" and "Peace", and it is of course half of the traditional Muslim exchange of greetings.

I am not sure why you are mentioning that now. As a reminder that most Muslims mean well, perhaps?


Well, sure.

Islaam very consistently insists on the need to extend good will towards others. At least as long as they acknowledge Allah as the only God.



The purpose being avoiding unwarranted perceptions of Muslims as liars. That is not "nonsense".

Quite on the contrary, it is a badly needed effort in these times of uncertainty and mistrust towards Muslims.

Saying the religion itself teaches peace is different from saying that the word itself means peace. One is arguable based on doctrinal interpretations; the other is just a semantic falsehood, and I don't think falsehoods do mutual understanding between Muslims and non-Muslims any favors.



Don't you think there are better ways to "soften people's hearts about Islam" that don't involve spreading misinformation?

Tuquoque fallacy. Just because "western media" tells lies - and in reality it's only parts of western media that tell lies; other parts won't go near the fact that Muslims commit crimes - doesn't make it okay for Muslims to lie (even if it is through omission). The number of times I've seen Muslims (and those who defend their faith blindly) argue that Islam means peace is... well, I've lost count. The thing is Muslims are encouraged to learn Arabic and be proficient at it so why do they not call out those defending them when it's said by others that 'Islam means peace' when (as DS has clearly demonstrated) it doesn't? Why aren't these people called out for incorrect use of Arabic?

By refusing to correct this error they are compounding it by allowing it to spread. That it has taken a non-Muslim to point this out says a great deal.
As a Muslim I say there are 2 possibilities
1. Muslims say Islam is peace . In this case they wanna say Islam is a religion of peace. And as I told before in Persian and Arabic we remove some words that aren't needed in informal talk. For example u say in English ""found u " in fact u should say ""I found u" "
2. At least most of the Muslims here English isn't their mother language so they say Islam means peace is just because of being unskilled.

Anyway please be honest
Muslims will never translate Islam literally for u and they never do I think.

So instead of accusing Muslims it's better to think that there is a misunderstanding here.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
@interminable , I don't think you have grounds for questioning people's honesty for simply clarifying a common misunderstanding.

Nor is it a matter of being excessively attentive to detail, either. We are, after all, talking about a group that often points out that "there is no compulsion in religion" without any elaboration or comment, only to shortly afterwards casually mention how much compulsion there is in their doctrine. And that often attempts to answer simple questions by quoting from the Qur'an - again, without elaboration or clear comment.

There is a misunderstanding, but it is to a very large extent one of Muslim doing.
 

Sakeenah

Well-Known Member
So.......... what?
OK, I think I got it within the simplicity of :
Salaam = Peace
Islam = Submission

The most fundamental fact for any person is that they, (whether liking it or not) will submit, either to their God or Nature. They can take their pick. There are no exceptions.

Try asking a Christian, or an Atheist, or a Buddhist what the name of their 'way' means and you will get a score of varying answers from each one; then you could pick holes in 'em all.

What Islam doesn't need, just now, is a lesson in semantics given that billions of peaceful Muslims are being subjected to the fact that International criminals are murdering thousands in their name.

And so if any Muslim chooses to describe their way as anything connected to Peace then I will acknowledge them.

Were you just getting on the 'bandwagon' here?

As a muslim I don't see a problem with the OP it's quite informative especially for those who haven't heard of the sciences of the arabic language.
DS was simply explaining the linguistic differences between the words Islam and Salaam.

The word Islam doesn't mean peace linguistically and also not according to the Islamic Law so it's wrong to say it means peace. Linguistically it means submission and according to Islamic law it means willingly submitting to the will of God.

If a person says Islam the RELIGION itself is peaceful than I agree but OP was looking at the meaning of the WORD islam.
 
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paarsurrey

Veteran Member
I have seen more than one post here say that Islam means peace, and, while the connection between the two words isn't nonexistent—for reasons that I will clarify in this post—it is clearly not the case that Islam means such. The word actually means submission; peace is salaam, not Islam.

To explain the fairly subtle connection between the words Islam and salaam, which may be the reason for the conflation between the meanings of the two by some people, I'm going to have to touch on three fundamentals of the Arabic language:

1) Derivation of nouns from verbs

2) Verb roots

3) The omission of additions to verb roots to reach the verb root's basic form, which is used to search for it in an Arabic dictionary.

Obviously, since I have to explain mostly in English, I won't be able to get into all of the nuances of these rules, but hopefully I'll be able to explain enough to achieve the purpose of this thread. Furthermore, to avoid lengthening the explanation more than is necessary, I'm going to avoid using diacritics unless they're absolutely necessary for clarity.

---------------------------------------------
1) Derivation of nouns from verbs:

In Arabic, there are two types of nouns: derived nouns and "rigid" nouns, which aren't derived from any verbs. There is what is called a "balance of verbs" that determines the noun denoting the action that the verb refers to, and it is based on the word فعل ("[he] did"), in the masculine past tense form.

Note that when you want to derive a noun from an Arabic verb, you generally conjugate the verb in the masculine past tense. (There is only one form for the past tense of verbs in Arabic, unlike in English.) This is the starting point, and it determines what type the verb belongs to out of four possible types:

1) Tholathy, with three letters in its masculine past tense form

2) Robaay, with four letters in its masculine past tense form

3) Khomasy, with five letters in its masculine past tense form

4) Sodasy, with six letters in its masculine past tense form.

With some exceptions, each of these types have certain patterns that they follow when they are used to derive nouns. In the case of the two words Islam and salaam, these are the respective verbs from which they are derived, juxtaposed with their counterparts in the "balance of verbs," i.e., the standard forms they take:

1) Islam:

أسلم
أفعل

2) Salaam:

سلم
فعل

In the case of verbs taking the form أفعل, like أسلم, their corresponding nouns take this form:

إفعال

So أسلم (aslama) makes إسلام (Islam).

أسلم (aslama) means "[he] submitted," hence Islam's meaning, "submission."

In the case of the verb سَلِمَ (salima), meaning "[he] became safe," it makes سلام (salaam), meaning "peace." (Note that I used diacritics in the case of the verb salima because otherwise it is very easy to confuse with other verbs made up of the same three letters.)

So we can see that "peace" and "submission" are two different words in Arabic and are derived from different verbs. But where is the subtle connection that I mentioned in the beginning of the post? This is where I touch on the second thing I mentioned in the beginning:

2) Verb roots:

The vast majority of Arabic verbs can be broken down into three-letter roots. This is first done through the "balance of verbs" by juxtaposing the verb with its counterpart in the standard form:

أسلم
أفعل

سَلِمَ
فَعِلَ


This gets me to the third and final point of the explanation:

3) The omission of additions to verb roots to reach the verb root's basic form, which is used to search for it in an Arabic dictionary:

In the vast majority of cases, to reach the root of an Arabic verb, you need to carry out step (2) as in the above and then omit all letters that are added to the word فعل, on which the balance of Arabic verbs is based, as I said in the beginning of the post. So we get this:

أسلم
أفعل

This is a mazeed verb, meaning that it has one or more letters than are in the base form and that they can be removed while maintaining the meaningfulness of the remaining word. It is a robaay verb, so there is only one letter that we are going to remove to turn it into the three-letter root by only leaving the word فعل:

أسلم
أفعل

After removing the extra letter (colored blue), we end up with this:

سلم
Written in the root form with the letters separated, we get (س ل م).

Now let's do the same with the verb salima:

سَلِمَ
فَعِلَ

We get this: (س ل م), which is the same root the verb أسلم has.

So, while Islam and salaam are derived from different verbs and have different meanings, the verbs from which they are derived have the same root. This doesn't mean that they are synonyms, however—Islam means submission while salaam means peace, regardless of their verbs' having the same root and regardless of the slight similarity in the way both words sound.

Finally, sorry if this post was too long. I wanted to be as precise as possible without getting into details that would be unnecessary to the purpose of this thread in addition to possibly being too complicated to explain with little or no Arabic writing. :D

"So, while Islam and salaam are derived from different verbs and have different meanings, the verbs from which they are derived have the same root. This doesn't mean that they are synonyms, however—Islam means submission while salaam means peace, regardless of their verbs' having the same root and regardless of the slight similarity in the way both words sound."

I agree with the above colored in magenta.
I gave a link in post #29 above that gives all the 140 verses/places where the Arabic root word s-l-m has been used in Quran.
Does the OP or anybody else has any objection to the text or its meaning of the verses of Quran or its translation in English given there.
If so, please, quote the verse.
Regards


 
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oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
As a muslim I don't see a problem with the OP it's quite informative especially for those who haven't heard of the sciences of the arabic language.
DS was simply explaining the linguistic differences between the words Islam and Salaam.

The word Islam doesn't mean peace linguistically and also not according to the Islamic Law so it's wrong to say it means peace. Linguistically it means submission and according to Islamic law it means willingly submitting to the will of God.

If a person says Islam the RELIGION itself is peaceful than I agree but OP was looking at the meaning of the WORD islam.

Thankyou for the time you took to tell me what the OP was explaining.

I've learned something from this, and the next time I read, say, a Christian explaining that Christianity means 'Love' , or a Muslim explaining that Islam means 'Peace', I'll wait for any 'exact', 'scientific', 'detailed' responses intent on putting them right, academically speaking. :D
 

Servant_of_the_One1

Well-Known Member
Islam means submission to the will of Allah swt.
However what islambashers seems to forget is that islam protected minorities. So in essense islam can provide for salam/peace.
How else could jews christians and others live under muslim rule if islam demanded their heads?
How else could Jews run to Muslim Ottoman empire fleeing from persecuation at the hands of Christian Spain?
 

The Emperor of Mankind

Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
Islam means submission to the will of Allah swt.
However what islambashers seems to forget is that islam protected minorities. So in essense islam can provide for salam/peace.
How else could jews christians and others live under muslim rule if islam demanded their heads?
How else could Jews run to Muslim Ottoman empire fleeing from persecuation at the hands of Christian Spain?

Can you try to at least respond to arguments you aren't making up yourself? :rolleyes:
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
Islam means submitting to the Will and Glory of Allah swt.
By doing that a person will be saved by As-Salam( one of 99 names of Allah, it means Source of Peace and Safety) on the day of Judgement from the destructive fire.

130. And who turns away from the religion of Ibrahim (Abraham) (i.e. Islamic Monotheism) except him who befools himself? Truly, We chose him in this world and verily, in the Hereafter he will be among the righteous.

131. When his Lord said to him, "Submit (i.e. be a Muslim)!" He said, "I have submitted myself (as a Muslim) to the Lord of the 'Alamin (mankind, jinns and all that exists)."


132. And this (submission to Allah, Islam) was enjoined by Ibrahim (Abraham) upon his sons and by Ya'qub (Jacob), (saying), "O my sons! Allah has chosen for you the (true) religion, then die not except in the Faith of Islam (as Muslims - Islamic Monotheism)."

133. Or were you witnesses when death approached Ya'qub (Jacob)? When he said unto his sons, "What will you worship after me?" They said, "We shall worship your Ilah (God - Allah), the Ilah (God) of your fathers, Ibrahim (Abraham), Isma'il (Ishmael), Ishaque (Isaac), One Ilah(God), and to Him we submit (in Islam)."


And i love to submit to the Will of the One who created me and everything that exist.

Thanks for citing the Qur'anic verses that confirm the meaning of "Islam." Yes, it means what you said it does. I'm not sure why some people don't seem to get that pointing out the meaning of the word doesn't necessarily have anything to do with attaching a value judgment to it.
 

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
As a muslim I don't see a problem with the OP it's quite informative especially for those who haven't heard of the sciences of the arabic language.
DS was simply explaining the linguistic differences between the words Islam and Salaam.

The word Islam doesn't mean peace linguistically and also not according to the Islamic Law so it's wrong to say it means peace. Linguistically it means submission and according to Islamic law it means willingly submitting to the will of God.

If a person says Islam the RELIGION itself is peaceful than I agree but OP was looking at the meaning of the WORD islam.

Exactly. Thanks for the great post. :)

Your OP title reads 'Islam means 'Submission', not 'Peace'. ' Now that's a negative communication.

Only if you think that "submission" is necessarily a negative thing, which many Muslims don't believe it is, and that's not the subject of the thread anyway.

Oh?..... Really?
Let me get this right..... you feel that the meaning of a word like 'Islam' is as simple (in definition) as words such as 'apple' or 'milk'?

It's not that simple. Billions of people recognise the word Islam to mean 'a whole way of life' , and if a Muslim feels that 'Through Submission to Allah' they have come to a spiritually harmonius and peaceful 'place', then their definition is reasonable.

There are too many millions of peaceful Muslims in the World for such a 'semantic fact' to be seen as diplomatic, certainly.

Again, interpretations of what Islam teaches as a religion are a different issue from the semantic meaning of the word. Given that at least one Muslim member has pointed out the difference between the two issues, I'm not sure why you seem to be having a problem differentiating between semantics and doctrinal issues.
 
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