Islam rejects meritocracies?

[icehorse]

@icehorse Thank you. So you believe there are no contradictions? If not give me more that you think are or give me ''errors''.

No Jabar. I believe there are MANY contradictions, but I don't think that you and I can talk about them logically. Too much of your evidence is based on faith.

 

[icehorse]

@icehorse I would like you to watch this.

Hi Jabar,

The speaker in that video makes many errors in logic. He commits many logical fallacies. Ultimately he is relying on faith, not logic, to support his arguments.

Let me give you just one example: In the beginning of his talk he says that atheists claim that we came from the big bang and then from evolution. I am an atheist, and that's not what I claim. What I claim, and what the atheists I know claim is that we do not have all the answers. The big bang is a theory with a lot of evidence, but it does not give us answers to all the questions we have to ask. To me, the difference between most atheists and most religious people is that atheists are more comfortable saying "I don't know", and religious folks are more comfortable saying "my scripture has the answers".

 

[Jabar]

@icehorse Listen dude, i think you are just being arrogant and ignorant. Tell me the logical ''fallacies'' he stated. This is logic. It obviously proves the existence of God. You are just blinded by today's society.

 

[Jabar]

Hi Jabar,

The speaker in that video makes many errors in logic. He commits many logical fallacies. Ultimately he is relying on faith, not logic, to support his arguments.

Let me give you just one example: In the beginning of his talk he says that atheists claim that we came from the big bang and then from evolution. I am an atheist, and that's not what I claim. What I claim, and what the atheists I know claim is that we do not have all the answers. The big bang is a theory with a lot of evidence, but it does not give us answers to all the questions we have to ask. To me, the difference between most atheists and most religious people is that atheists are more comfortable saying "I don't know", and religious folks are more comfortable saying "my scripture has the answers".

EXACTLY! Which is why he explains that these are some of the Atheists that have that belief.

 

[Jabar]

@icehorse Let me ask you a question. If a new object or a machine, which no one in the world has ever seen or heard of before, is shown to you and then a question is asked, " Who is the first person who will be able to provide details of the mechanism of this unknown object? After little bit of thinking, you will reply, ‘the creator of that object.’ Some may say ‘the producer’ while others may say ‘the manufacturer.’ What ever answer the person gives, keep it in your mind, the answer will always be either the creator, the producer, the manufacturer or some what of the same meaning, i.e. the person who has made it or created it. Don’t grapple with words, whatever answer you give, the meaning will be same, therefore i do not get how you can disapprove of this.

 

[icehorse]

Hi Jabar,

The answer is that I don't know the origins of the universe, and neither do you. The difference is that you pretend to know.

 

[firedragon]

Hi Jabar,

The answer is that I don't know the origins of the universe, and neither do you. The difference is that you pretend to know.

Does this guy actually pretend to know? Not really. He does not pretend. He BELIEVES that the God who revealed the Quran knows.

Big difference.

 

[Jabar]

@firedragon Exactly.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

@Ya'quub Do you have a problem with comprehending? I said if they actually know the true meaning and still object they are merely being arrogant. I never called people who make wrong interpretations arrogant, it is when they actually know the truth and refuse to believe it after. You do not understand what i am saying. And do not make misconceptions on what i say after this comment. I am calling those who are arrogant.

Salaam,
But that is not what you said initially. It is entirely possible that I do have a problem comprehending certain things. If someone does indeed have a problem comprehending, then the answer is to try to help them to comprehend, with patience. In this way, you will bring people closer to the Truth. Suggesting that they might not be a Muslim is unlikely to help.
Wassalaam

 

[Jabar]

@icehorse You are grappling with words, are you giving me a straightforward answer, nope.

 

[Jabar]

@Ya'quub Okay brother. But i never suggested it. I merely asked a question because i was skeptical. It was an ambiguous thought that made me ask a question. Thank you though for the advice.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Jabar is accusing you of pretending to be a Muslim in order to wind people up, to spread false information or whatever.

Ah okay, so that's what being a troll means, thank you!

 

[icehorse]

Does this guy actually pretend to know? Not really. He does not pretend. He BELIEVES that the God who revealed the Quran knows.

Big difference.

I am happy to agree with this. Jabar BELIEVES this. But his belief in God, like all religious people's belief in their God, is based on faith, not evidence. I am happy to agree that religious people believe things on faith.

I will disagree with any religious person who claims to have evidence for their beliefs in the supernatural.

 

[Jabar]

@icehorse Based on faith only? The scientific evidence in the Qur'an? Are you missing out on that?

 

[Jabar]

@icehorse Let me ask you a question, if God were to show himself to you. Would you believe in God?

 

[icehorse]

@icehorse Based on faith only? The scientific evidence in the Qur'an? Are you missing out on that?

There is no evidence in the Quran that qualifies as "scientific evidence". We hear these claims all the time, and such claims point to a misunderstanding of the idea of scientific evidence.

 

[icehorse]

@icehorse Let me ask you a question, if God were to show himself to you. Would you believe in God?

If God showed up, gave me some amazing evidence, and let me ask him to show up again later so that I could give him some tests and record his abilities... I would believe. I would believe because I had the chance to collect some true scientific evidence.

 

[firedragon]

I am happy to agree with this. Jabar BELIEVES this. But his belief in God, like all religious people's belief in their God, is based on faith, not evidence. I am happy to agree that religious people believe things on faith.

I will disagree with any religious person who claims to have evidence for their beliefs in the supernatural.

Thats your belief. But he does not PRETEND that HE knows. He believes God knows.

Still, theres a big difference.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Is it at all surprising that a book that is supposed to be the perfect word of God is examined with attention for contradictions?

The Qur'aan is indeed Perfect. We are not, therefore we will inevitably struggle to grasp its True Meaning. Moreover, it was revealed in a particular context, a particular time and place, in accordance with the needs of its audience. God did not need to spell everything out because His audience was very familiar with those things and would have straightaway known what He was talking about. We live in a different time and/or place, so some things are not so clear to us. This is why we need the Ahaadeeth to help to guide us. And why we must talk to other people, hear their interpretations and consider them. And of course ultimately, and constantly, ask God for guidance.

 

[firedragon]

If God showed up, gave me some amazing evidence, and let me ask him to show up again later so that I could give him some tests and record his abilities... I would believe. I would believe because I had the chance to collect some true scientific evidence.

Not if you close your eyes.