islam vs Judaism

[gsa]

Considering that Christianity is based on the presupposition that the Jews are doing it wrong, I'm not entirely adverse to calling them out either.

Fair enough. Christianity and Judaism cannot be reconciled, given that they make incompatible claims about the messiah.

Well, I would call that part of belief about G-d's being. That seems to me the only really significant similarity (ie. that we share the same belief about G-d's being in general as opposed to what He may have said.)

I think that there are other significant similarities, including a similar mythology (founding figures like Ibrahim/Abraham, events like Sodom and Gomorrah) and relatively similar views about Yahweh/Allah. There are plenty of non-Semites who believe in gods, even a unitary single god, that are nothing like the god of Abrahamic monotheism.

 

[gsa]

C'mon guys, what did the Greeks do now?

I have nothing against the Greeks. They helped produce one of the best cultural traditions in the world, if not the best. Ask Metis what he has against them, if anything; I understand that hostility to Greek culture and customs runs deep in some religious circles.

 

[Tumah]

I think that there are other significant similarities, including a similar mythology (founding figures like Ibrahim/Abraham, events like Sodom and Gomorrah) and relatively similar views about Yahweh/Allah. There are plenty of non-Semites who believe in gods, even a unitary single god, that are nothing like the god of Abrahamic monotheism.

I think the similar history is a superficial similarity as their ideology is that our Scriptures are wrong. So while names and events may be similar to some extent, they are coming from two different places: one to present the history of Judaism and one to present the history of Islam. Hello Kitty and Hello Kitty knock-offs also both look very similar (especially if you're older than 9 years).

 

[gsa]

I think the similar history is a superficial similarity as their ideology is that our Scriptures are wrong. So while names and events may be similar to some extent, they are coming from two different places: one to present the history of Judaism and one to present the history of Islam. Hello Kitty and Hello Kitty knock-offs also both look very similar (especially if you're older than 9 years).

They're at least as similar as Roman and Greek polytheism. Which is to say, significantly similar. Yes, your ideological (or if you prefer, religious) commitments are different, but you share a similar vocabulary and theology.

 

[Flankerl]

They're at least as similar as Roman and Greek polytheism. Which is to say, significantly similar. Yes, your ideological (or if you prefer, religious) commitments are different, but you share a similar vocabulary and theology.

No not at all. Roman Polytheism is basically renamed Greek Polytheism where some minor elements got changed.

This is not at all true for Islam and Judaism and especially not Christianity and Judaism

 

[metis]

C'mon guys, what did the Greeks do now?

It's really sort of a joke in terms of what Greek boys would supposedly do with the sheep when they were out in fields alone with them and hadn't been with a girl for a while-- hint-hint wink-wink.

 

[Tumah]

They're at least as similar as Roman and Greek polytheism. Which is to say, significantly similar. Yes, your ideological (or if you prefer, religious) commitments are different, but you share a similar vocabulary and theology.

It was pointed out earlier that our vocabulary has similarities, but I think the actual words imply vastly different ideas. Although to be honest, this coming from knowing a lot about Judaism and not very much about Islam.

 

[gsa]

No not at all. Roman Polytheism is basically renamed Greek Polytheism where some minor elements got changed.

This is not at all true for Islam and Judaism and especially not Christianity and Judaism

If anything, there were larger differences between Greek and Roman religion than between the forms of Abrahamic monotheism. It is only from the vantage point of a modern that we collapse them together.

 

[Tumah]

If anything, there were larger differences between Greek and Roman religion than between the forms of Abrahamic monotheism. It is only from the vantage point of a modern that we collapse them together.

I don't know very much about Greek and Roman religion, but if Judaism and Christianity are more similar than Greek and Roman religions, then the difference between them must be unbelievably vast. I wonder if maybe you don't know very much about Judaism in comparison to Christianity and Islam.

 

[gsa]

It was pointed out earlier that our vocabulary has similarities, but I think the actual words imply vastly different ideas. Although to be honest, this coming from knowing a lot about Judaism and not very much about Islam.

Look at it this way: If we were religious taxonomists, and we were classifying religions and grouping them together, there is absolutely no doubt that Judaism, Christianity and Islam would be grouped together under something akin to Abrahamic monotheism. Just as Buddhism and Hinduism would be grouped under a dharmic heading, even though many of the terms that they share vary considerably.

 

[gsa]

I don't know very much about Greek and Roman religion, but if Judaism and Christianity are more similar than Greek and Roman religions, then the difference between them must be unbelievably vast. I wonder if maybe you don't know very much about Judaism in comparison to Christianity and Islam.

Well hundreds of years separates the origins and mixing of the two religions in the case of ancient Rome and Greece, so yes, the differences are vast.

And I know enough about Judaism, Christianity and Islam to place them under the appropriate label of Abrahamic monotheism.

 

[Flankerl]

After just the first 300 years Christianity was vastly different from Judaism. And by that time we aren't even in the Middle Ages yet.

 

[Tumah]

Look at it this way: If we were religious taxonomists, and we were classifying religions and grouping them together, there is absolutely no doubt that Judaism, Christianity and Islam would be grouped together under something akin to Abrahamic monotheism. Just as Buddhism and Hinduism would be grouped under a dharmic heading, even though many of the terms that they share vary considerably.

I hear that.

Well hundreds of years separates the origins and mixing of the two religions in the case of ancient Rome and Greece, so yes, the differences are vast.

And I know enough about Judaism, Christianity and Islam to place them under the appropriate label of Abrahamic monotheism.

When it came to Rome and Greece I thought it was the same pantheon with new names. I wasn't aware that the differences were much more than that.

That label doesn't really say much about the actual ideology and fundamentals of the religions though, so I'm not sure that would really be a good litmus of their similarity. That's all I'm trying to say.

 

[Godobeyer]

I understand how similar these two are, but what is the major differences and the actual debate is, how is one right and the other wrong? What about the fact that the Torah speaks of the contract being cancelled? Or that Islam practices idolatry because they basically worship the Kaabla?

Jews don't believe in Jesus (pbuh) as Messiah , the Muslims believe Jesus (pbuh) is Messiah .

Torah discribe God as human , Quran said God un-discribale.

We have Kaaba ,and Madina , and Alqsa , they had Menorah .

 

[Flankerl]

Torah discribe God as human

Where?

they had Menorah

No we had this

 

[Juhurka]

Islam originated from Judaism so a lot of similarities will exist

The jews tried to kill some prophets and in others they succeeded in killing them(Allah swt decreed martyrdom for prophet Yahya/John pbuh and many others). They are people of desires and arrogance(it was arrogance that made them reject prophet Muhammad pbuh because of " how can we follow arab prophet?"). We believe they broke the covenant with Allah swt by rejecting his prophets(Jesus pbuh, John pbuh and many others).

Whoever disbelieves in one prophet, it is as if he disbelieved in all prophets.

@Toxikmynd muslims dont worship kabah. Kabah is just direction of prayer. We dont say the kabah can forgive our sins, that kabah can benefit us or damage us.



Question:

What is the rebuttal to the Malaahidah (atheists) who say: You O Muslims worship a stone and circumambulate around it! So how can you reproach others from worship of idols and statues/images?
Answer:

This is an evident lie, we do not worship the [black] stone but rather we touch it and kiss it - the same as the Messenger of Allaah SallAllahu 'alayhi wasallam did - in worship of Allaah and in emulating the Messenger of Allaah SallAllahu 'alayhi wasallam. The [Black] Stone is from the signs of Allaah similar to when we stand in 'Arafah, similar to when we stay in Muzdalifah and similar to when we circumambulate around the House (the Ka'bah). Likewise we kiss the Black Stone and touch it or gesture towards it because it is from the signs of Allaah. Hence our kissing it or touching it or signalling towards it is in worship of Allaah not the stone. Furthermore, for this reason when 'Umar ibn al-Khattab radhiallaah 'anhu kissed the [black] stone he said:
"Indeed I know that you are but a stone you neither benefit nor harm, and if it was not that I saw the Messenger of Allaah SallAllahu 'alayhi wasallam kiss you I would not have kissed you."

[Reported by al-Bukhaaree (1597), and Muslim (1270)]

More of muslim bs claiming that Jews killed prophets, the only religion that kills in the name of G-D right now is islam so take your replacement theology and.... really deep.

 

[Juhurka]

Jews don't believe in Jesus (pbuh) as Messiah , the Muslims believe Jesus (pbuh) is Messiah .

Torah discribe God as human , Quran said God un-discribale.

We have Kaaba ,and Madina , and Alqsa , they had Menorah .

Torah does not describe G-D as human, and you have meca and kaaba, we have Jerusalem and temple mount (har moriya). You seem to be confused about Judaism, Im not sure if its because you never read about judaism or some local imam brainwashed you. Educate your self, islam originated from judaism so anything that islam has, jews have it better.

 

[gsa]

When it came to Rome and Greece I thought it was the same pantheon with new names. I wasn't aware that the differences were much more than that.

That label doesn't really say much about the actual ideology and fundamentals of the religions though, so I'm not sure that would really be a good litmus of their similarity. That's all I'm trying to say.

No the pantheon was correlated with the Greek one over a long period of time, and certain Hellenistic practices were adopted along the way, while other Italic or Etruscan ones were maintained by Romans. By nature they are more diverse than monotheists, in any event.

I realize that to a practitioner of those religions, the label of Abrahamic monotheism doesn't seem to convey much, given the significant perceived differences...again, for believers. For outsiders (and outside critics), the similarities are clear enough. They also all affirm the existence of "one God," even if that one God is trinitarian in Christian circles (mystical trends in both Judaism and Islam show that the divine unity of the monotheistic religions should always have an asterisk in any event). The traditional variations affirm an inspired or inerrant scripture that contains the teachings of the prophets concerning appropriate ritual, law, worship, theology, etcetera. There are common mythological elements; the overlap between Christianity and Judaism is scriptural, while Islam borrows characters and events (i.e., Abraham, the destruction of Sodom) in a reformatted story. As far as social practices go, all three are violently homophobic, which reflects a certain understanding of gender roles, among other things. They are also extremely hostile to polytheism and apostasy.

So yes, I agree that to believers, there are significant differences. From the vantage point of an outsider, however, particularly one who rejects them, they share so many features that grouping them together is appropriate.

 

[Toxikmynd]

I would like to just apologize because 95% of the time I am posting from my phone and I hate it so I state things as though they are what I believe, but since this is a debate thread, I would like to let you all know that the things I say are really more like things I've heard. Also, I was pretty sure that the Muslim people saw Jesus as just another prophet, not the Messiah, but I guess I could be wrong.. Also, even though some may say they don't claim the Kaaba to be able to forgive sins or anything, you pray towards it, dance around it and even some try to kiss the rock on the inside because they believe it to be good luck, seems SLIGHTLY Idolatrous to me. That's just my opinion and hey, I'm an Asatruar so I use a LOT of Idols so do not take offense.

 

[Sleeppy]

How similar are these two? As far as I know, the similarities are superficial at best. The only major one I know is belief in the same G-d.
According to Jewish Law Islam doesn't practice idolatry. Only Christianity does (of the three I mean). What other similarities are there?

All three are guilty of idolatry specifically, in the form of autolatry.