islam vs Judaism

[Sleeppy]

But Quran never said God creat human in his image .

Quran said too , hand or face of God is not the same of hand of human .

If the Quran admits that Allah has hands and a face, then Allah is like any other animal with hands and a face, even if Allah's hands and face are different. -- Do you know what the Torah meant when it said God created humans in His likeness? Even though it says God has hands, a face, and can walk, it didn't mean those things literally, like Muhammed also knew that Allah does not have hands or a face.

 

[Godobeyer]

If the Quran admits that Allah has hands and a face, then Allah is like any other animal with hands and a face, even if Allah's hands and face are different. -- Do you know what the Torah meant when it said God created humans in His likeness? Even though it says God has hands, a face, and can walk, it didn't mean those things literally, like Muhammed also knew that Allah does not have hands or a face.

obviously "it's not meant it in His likeness", actualy , it's confirmed it , by saying "in his image"

then voice of walking God , is not seems literally because actions .

 

[Flankerl]

Forget my English , because i know that you understand my point .

YES i understand it as voice of walking (of God) around , so God walking had voice . so He had feet ?

Seriously educate yourself on what figure of speech means.

 

[Godobeyer]

Seriously educate yourself on what figure of speech means.

in some replies you forget to tell me educate yourself , in some other you using this card ?

 

[Harmonious]

But Quran never said God creat human in his image .

You know... For a deeper understanding, it would help to know that when God said, "Let us create man in our image," God - a non-corporeal being - spoke to non-corporeal beings, and so Jews generally understand this passage to mean two specific things.

1) God spoke to the angels, teaching us that, even though God is omniscient and omnipotent, God sought the advice of lesser beings. So too, humans should seek advice before undertaking great milestones, even if we consider ourselves wise, perhaps even more wise than those we might take counsel from, but to at least seek counsel. If God could do it, don't be so up on yourself to believe you shouldn't look for advice in life, in general.

2) Since it is understood that God is non-corporeal (well... amongst Jews, anyway), the "image" being spoken of isn't a physical description. It is "having a soul with the ability to judge between right and wrong," among other things.

Just so that you understand how Jews understand our own texts...

 

[Harmonious]

Torah discribe God as human , Quran said God un-discribale.

No. We have anthropomorphism, where we describe God using verbal images we can understand with our five senses and otherwise perceptions. We do not, actually, believe that God is, at all, human.

If you see God referred to, in any of our scripture, as having human attributes, it is only so that we can better understand God and His actions, not because we actually believe that God has hands, feet, a face, a back, wings, whatever.

 

[Abu-Faris]

I understand how similar these two are, but what is the major differences and the actual debate is, how is one right and the other wrong? What about the fact that the Torah speaks of the contract being cancelled? Or that Islam practices idolatry because they basically worship the Kaaba?

As a Muslim, I believe there are major differences between Islam and Judaism. To mention the main ones..

Firstly, the concept of monotheism in Islam (tawheed) is more comprehensive than just acknowledging that there is One Lord. We believe that there is none worthy of worship except God, our worship and prayers are directed to God alone, there is a level of love which is also only for God, that there is a type of fear that is also only for God, that God has control over all things, He honours who He wants and humbles who He wants, no harm/benefit can come to us if God has not willed it, God is the Legislator, no one can overrule His Commands and Laws.

No Muslim worships the Kaaba. The Kaaba is just our direction of prayer for the whole Muslim nation wherever we are in the world, we believe it was the first place of worship built by Prophet Adam (peace be upon him) originally and then re-built by the Prophets Abraham and Ismael (peace be upon them both). The 2nd rightly-guided Caliph of Islam, Umar ibn al-Khattab, clarified this openly for all new converts. He went to Black Stone of the Kaaba and kissed it, then said out loud that I know you can not benefit or harm me, had I not seen the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of God be upon him) kiss you I would not have touched you. Another companion of the Prophet would actually stand on top of the Kaaba. And even today some people have prayed inside the Kaaba. No one would treat their object of worship like that. Its just our direction of prayer, it is not worshipped and neither does it symbolise any deity that is worshipped.

Secondly, is Prophethood. Muslims affirm and honour all the Prophets sent by God, we believe to reject one is to reject them all. The Jews on the otherhand have a history of rejecting Prophets and treating them harshly, this history goes from biblical times right up to the time of the Final Prophet of God 1400 years ago.

This rejecting of some Prophets meant that they also rejected the Revelation that was sent to those Prophets. Hence our sources of religion are different which means our practices are also different.

 

[Abu-Faris]

Another difference is that Jews place too much emphasis on the letter of the Law overlooking the spirit.

Christians on the other extreme place too much emphasis on the spirit of Law overlooking completely the letter.

Islam I believe takes the middle path and places the right importance on both.

 

[Toxikmynd]

I see I see. Personally, I don't know what to believe!

 

[Sleeppy]

obviously "it's not meant it in His likeness", actualy , it's confirmed it , by saying "in his image"

then voice of walking God , is not seems literally because actions .

Genesis 1:26
And God said: 'Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.'

If you read for example the account of the burning bush, what image did God take? Or during the Hebrews walk through the desert, being accompanied by a pillar of smoke by day, and a pillar of fire by night- what image did God take?

God is not owned, but instead owns all of reality. God cannot be fully seen, heard, smelled, tasted, or touched. Instead, God is only partially understood. Whenever you see anything, you are seeing God's likeness. Whenever you hear anything, you are hearing God's likeness. Whenever you smell anything, you are smelling God's likeness. Whenever you taste anything, you are indeed tasting God's likeness. And whenever you touch anything, you are touching God's likeness. Whenever you experience anything, you are experiencing God's likeness.

So while the Torah, and the Quran, speak metaphorically of God, their descriptions do not fully contain God. Nothing can fully contain God. It is not adequate to say that God has hands, because He owns every hand there is. It is not adequate to say that God has a face, because He owns every face that there is. Moses is not able to confine God, nor is Muhammad, nor Jesus. There is nothing you or anyone else can say, or think about God that describes His entirety. -- And so, you are not able to judge anyone without judging yourself.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

obviously "it's not meant it in His likeness", actualy , it's confirmed it , by saying "in his image"

then voice of walking God , is not seems literally because actions .

"In His image" refers to the rational faculties of our souls, which are attributes we share with God.

The other examples are metaphors.

 

[Abu-Faris]

In the Islamic tradition, it does not say in the Quran that "God created Adam in his image/form." However there is a narration of the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of God be upon him) saying that, and the way it is understood is that the pronoun 'his' refers to Adam not God. So its said 'God created Adam in his (Adams) form'. Meaning Adam was created in his own form as he is, a grown man who did not have go through the stages of growing up.

Maybe it was similar in Chrisitianity originally but got lost in translation?

 

[Abu-Faris]

I see I see. Personally, I don't know what to believe!

What are your current beliefs, if you dont mind me asking?

 

[Harmonious]

As a Muslim, I believe there are major differences between Islam and Judaism. To mention the main ones..

Firstly, the concept of monotheism in Islam (tawheed) is more comprehensive than just acknowledging that there is One Lord. We believe that there is none worthy of worship except God, our worship and prayers are directed to God alone, there is a level of love which is also only for God, that there is a type of fear that is also only for God, that God has control over all things, He honours who He wants and humbles who He wants, no harm/benefit can come to us if God has not willed it, God is the Legislator, no one can overrule His Commands and Laws.

I'm not seeing a difference, there.

No Muslim worships the Kaaba. The Kaaba is just our direction of prayer for the whole Muslim nation wherever we are in the world, we believe it was the first place of worship built by Prophet Adam (peace be upon him) originally and then re-built by the Prophets Abraham and Ismael (peace be upon them both). The 2nd rightly-guided Caliph of Islam, Umar ibn al-Khattab, clarified this openly for all new converts. He went to Black Stone of the Kaaba and kissed it, then said out loud that I know you can not benefit or harm me, had I not seen the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of God be upon him) kiss you I would not have touched you. Another companion of the Prophet would actually stand on top of the Kaaba. And even today some people have prayed inside the Kaaba. No one would treat their object of worship like that. Its just our direction of prayer, it is not worshipped and neither does it symbolise any deity that is worshipped.

Yup. I mentioned that directionality was a similarity. The difference was WHICH was the focus for the direction.

Secondly, is Prophethood. Muslims affirm and honour all the Prophets sent by God, we believe to reject one is to reject them all.

Well, okay. That's a major difference. After the Jewish canon of Tanach closed, we are wary about who is deemed "a prophet," and if the message doesn't match what we were told before, we are supposed to ignore the new prophet as a false one.

The Jews on the other hand have a history of rejecting Prophets and treating them harshly,

Eh, not so much. It happened a few times towards the end of the First Temple, and then again, the people who did so weren't shining examples of what adherents to Judaism are supposed to do. They were part of the problem, but they weren't the ONLY examples of how Jews behave.

 

[Harmonious]

Another difference is that Jews place too much emphasis on the letter of the Law overlooking the spirit.

You are entitled to your opinion. But that doesn't make it truth.

 

[Harmonious]

By the way...

Welcome, Abu-Faris!

 

[Toxikmynd]

A

What are your current beliefs, if you dont mind me asking?

Asatru, Norse paganism, it's fallen out of favour though.

 

[serp777]

False dilemma. Neither are correct.

 

[Flankerl]

in some replies you forget to tell me educate yourself , in some other you using this card ?

Its really not my fault if you don't know what figure of speech or figurative means.

Which really is a wonderful example of the verse you quoted. Obviously God has no feet. And whats even more important a voice doesnt make a sound while it walks because voices cannot walk....

But you are of course free to read it in a literal way, but then you should rather talk to Christians than to Jews.

 

[Godobeyer]

In the Islamic tradition, it does not say in the Quran that "God created Adam in his image/form." However there is a narration of the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of God be upon him) saying that, and the way it is understood is that the pronoun 'his' refers to Adam not God. So its said 'God created Adam in his (Adams) form'. Meaning Adam was created in his own form as he is, a grown man who did not have go through the stages of growing up.

Maybe it was similar in Chrisitianity originally but got lost in translation?

maybe this correct meaning .
I don't know if this meaning works in orgine language of Torah , as it's work in Arabic

you suppose to be Scholar in Torah meaning , (Tafsir Torah), brother