Islam vs western values

[SkepticThinker]

I think prison is in many cases not good solution. It is too much like a reward, person gets free living. If the goal is to prevent rape, there are also other ways, for example, after the crime, if everyone knows what happened, they avoid the person, or don't be in situations where the person could rape.

The person gets to live fairly miserably in a tiny cell for the rest of their life thinking about their actions. Sounds like pretty decent punishment to me. If we kill him, then it's all over and no punishment for him.

But anything, anything, is a better punishment than forcing him to marry a person he committed a crime against, because that also punishes the victim, who's already been through enough.

 

[1213]

Right and the rapist is going to bother about being shunned? That is most likely some of the reason he is a rapist in the first place.

It will bother him, if he can't do it again. But, it is interesting, is the goal to revenge, or to prevent rape.

 

[ChristineM]

It will bother him, if he can't do it again. But, it is interesting, is the goal to revenge, or to prevent rape.

Both.

Any rape prevented is good.

And a criminal should pay for their crime

 

[Father Heathen]

I think prison is in many cases not good solution. It is too much like a reward, person gets free living. If the goal is to prevent rape, there are also other ways, for example, after the crime, if everyone knows what happened, they avoid the person, or don't be in situations where the person could rape.

Yeah, avoiding them. That'll stop them and teach them a lesson. You're trying to downplay a very severe and heinous crime. Now what reason would someone have to do such a thing?

 

[Father Heathen]

Eh the one thing that’s the same is Jesus.

But how many Christians actually honor Christ's teachings and examples? Many embrace a political ideology that's completely antithetical to them.

 

[Father Heathen]

No... you mentioned average. It just made your point mute.

It's "moot", not "mute".

 

[Father Heathen]

In this case the marriage would be punishment for him.

It would also be punishment for his victim, who obviously wouldn't deserve such an extremely cruel fate.

 

[Father Heathen]

Is gravity outdated?

No, but it hasn't been thoroughly refuted like the many falsehoods you cling to, either.

 

[Jimmy]

But how many Christians actually honor Christ's teachings and examples? Many embrace a political ideology that's completely antithetical to them.

Eh

 

[Kenny]

No, but it hasn't been thoroughly refuted like the many falsehoods you cling to, either.

Well... that is what we are trying to find out... just who is holding onto falsehoods - like someone who says there are more than 50 gender and even a non-gender and sometimes and trans-no-gender.

 

[Kenny]

It's "moot", not "mute".

So I have been told - but as I think about it - mute is also applicable

 

[Father Heathen]

Well... that is what we are trying to find out... just who is holding onto falsehoods - like someone who says there are more than 50 gender and even a non-gender and sometimes and trans-no-gender.

Even if it was a falsehood, you have yours so let them have theirs.

 

[Kenny]

Even if it was a falsehood, you have yours so let them have theirs.

Never said people couldn't. We are all free-will spirit agents.

 

[muhammad_isa]

The person gets to live fairly miserably in a tiny cell for the rest of their life thinking about their actions. Sounds like pretty decent punishment to me. If we kill him, then it's all over and no punishment for him.

..and you complain about G-d?
What sort of person are you?
Human beings have no right to oppress others, whatever they MIGHT have done.

G-d is able to forgive, OR punish .. and He knows what we don't know.
It is easy to say that people should be sentenced to life imprisonment .. but WHO PAYS?
..not you, I assume.

 

[ChristineM]

..and you complain about G-d?
What sort of person are you?
Human beings have no right to oppress others, whatever they MIGHT have done.

G-d is able to forgive, OR punish .. and He knows what we don't know.
It is easy to say that people should be sentenced to life imprisonment .. but WHO PAYS?
..not you, I assume.

Human beings have no right to other himan beings but it happens.

 

[danieldemol]

..and you complain about G-d?

Yes

What sort of person are you?

A good person

Human beings have no right to oppress others, whatever they MIGHT have done.

Agreed

G-d is able to forgive, OR punish .. and He knows what we don't know.
It is easy to say that people should be sentenced to life imprisonment .. but WHO PAYS?
..not you, I assume.

'The collective wealth of Australia's top 50 richest people in 2023 is $308 billion, according to global finance media company Forbes.

The figure has increased by 70 per cent since 2019, when the collective wealth was $181 billion.'

Source: Australia's top 10 richest people for 2023

Nope, the rich are not going broke from supporting the Australian prison system with its lack of a death penalty, not even remotely in my view.

 

[1213]

Yeah, avoiding them. That'll stop them and teach them a lesson. You're trying to downplay a very severe and heinous crime. Now what reason would someone have to do such a thing?

Yeah, sure, rewarding them like ancient winners of Olympic games surely is better solution.

I think it is bad and wrong to rape. But, prison or death in this case is not in my opinion good. I think prison is very poor solution in most crime cases, because it gives free living without responsibility for the criminals. Law abiding people are punished in this modern system, because they have to provide for the criminals. Best solution for crimes is that person repays, is killed or goes free. If killing criminals is not good, then it is better to let them go free, after they have paid back what they took.

 

[1213]

It would also be punishment for his victim, who obviously wouldn't deserve such an extremely cruel fate.

I think in the rare case when marriage would be the solution, it would be better for the woman than alternative solutions would have been. But, obviously ideal situation would be that no one rapes.

 

[Father Heathen]

Yeah, sure, rewarding them like ancient winners of Olympic games surely is better solution.

You are the one who wants to reward rapists, whereas I believe they should be punished and prevented from hurting others any longer.

I think it is bad and wrong to rape. But, prison or death in this case is not in my opinion good. I think prison is very poor solution in most crime cases, because it gives free living without responsibility for the criminals. Law abiding people are punished in this modern system, because they have to provide for the criminals. Best solution for crimes is that person repays, is killed or goes free. If killing criminals is not good, then it is better to let them go free, after they have paid back what they took.

Punishment should be proportionate to the crime. Also prison keeps them away from the public, preventing them from being able to victimize more innocent people.

 

[Father Heathen]

I think in the rare case when marriage would be the solution, it would be better for the woman than alternative solutions would have been. But, obviously ideal situation would be that no one rapes.

So if you were raped, you wouldn't mind being forced to marry the guy, where you would have to see his smug smiling face everyday, getting raped and abused everyday, for the rest of your life? You would be cool with that? With the toll it would have your psyche? Only a ghoulish sociopath would think that it's a sensible solution.