Isn't Lucifer the Good Guy?

[NightDreamer]

Let's assume that the Bible is like an honest news station... It tells you part of the story and it's opinion on it. The only part that is objectively true is the information about the story not the opinion.

The person who wrote the story where the prophets of Yahweh. So it was Yahweh's commentary mixed in with the events.

If you just look at the events it can be broken down to this.

1. Yahweh makes the angels in heaven.

2. Yahweh tells them what to do.

3. Lucifer (an archangel) speaks out against Yahweh with a third of the angels.

4. Yahweh casts the rebels from heaven.

5. Yahweh makes men and women as creatures ignorant of good and evil.

6. Lucifer convinces men and women to have the power to choose.

7. Yahweh punishes Lucifer, men, and women.

It seems to me that Lucifer is the great rebel trying to defeat an omnipotent tyrant.

To me Lucifer is a hero.

 

[Unification]

Let's assume that the Bible is like an honest news station... It tells you part of the story and it's opinion on it. The only part that is objectively true is the information about the story not the opinion.

The person who wrote the story where the prophets of Yahweh. So it was Yahweh's commentary mixed in with the events.

If you just look at the events it can be broken down to this.

1. Yahweh makes the angels in heaven.

2. Yahweh tells them what to do.

3. Lucifer (an archangel) speaks out against Yahweh with a third of the angels.

4. Yahweh casts the rebels from heaven.

5. Yahweh makes men and women as creatures ignorant of good and evil.

6. Lucifer convinces men and women to have the power to choose.

7. Yahweh punishes Lucifer, men, and women.

It seems to me that Lucifer is the great rebel trying to defeat an omnipotent tyrant.

To me Lucifer is a hero.

All of that stuff is occurring in the brain and mind.

 

[1137]

A traditional Luciferian take, but a solid one.

 

[NightDreamer]

All of that stuff is occurring in the brain and mind.

What can you percieve that does not?

 

[Nakosis]

What can you percieve that does not?

So, you basically agree with the statement and I think you might be missing the point.

Maybe what is being said is that the story is symbolic for the "psychological' goings on inside your own head.

My view is you can take up whatever religious view point you feel is appropriate. just don't expect anyone else to necessarily agree with it.

 

[Nakosis]

To me Lucifer is a hero.

So why did Lucifer rebel?

Here's one view...

"Years ago, as the story goes a great organist performed a piece on a pump organ. After the well received performance, the man who pumped the air commented to the organist, "That sure was a fine job we did, wasn't it?" "WE ?" replied the organist. "You may have operated the machinery, but I made the music all by myself." At their next performance, in the middle of the finale, the helper came out and sat on the front row. As the organ wound down to silence, the organist turned and shouted, "What are you doing out here. Get back in there and PUMP!" The other man calmly replied, "I just wanted to see how you were doing out here all by yourself."
Lucifer became so infatuated with himself that he forgot that he was dependent on God for his very life. Lucifer has not life in himself. He gets it from the same place we do, GOD. He is also subject to God's judgement and will have no more power than we do to escape God's decision."

 

[Jumi]

I think Lucifer as an archangel is a newer interpretation of the Bible.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

6. Lucifer convinces men and women to have the power to choose.

When?

 

[NightDreamer]

When?

Eat from the tree of KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Eat from the tree of KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL.

What does that have to do with Lucifer?

 

[NightDreamer]

What does that have to do with Lucifer?

He is the one who convinced Eve to do so.

(Before you start you should have read the begining post of the thread, this is a thought exercise)

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

He is the one who convinced Eve to do so.

Your ignorance of the Bible is remarkable.

 

[Nakosis]

Best I can tell from the Bible the cause of Lucifer's rebellion is pride. Pride is a bad thing. Well pride without acknowledging that we can't take a lot of credit for what we are. Lucifer wanted to rule heaven, thought he was better than God even though he didn't create the universe or even himself. Lucifer saw himself better than God.

If you're talking about the serpent, there's no necessary connection between Lucifer, Satan and the serpent.

 

[Nada]

Lucifer of the holy scriptures is not Satan the Devil.Many assume this because of traditional thinking but it is not true.It amuses me when I see people thinking it is.

 

[Etritonakin]

He could choose to be a good guy -but he chose to destroy, and he does not know good well enough to be good.

2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
2Co 11:15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

That is sometimes translated "for Satan transforms himself into an angel of light" -which means he acts as a good guy, but is not -but if he ACTUALLY transformed himself into an angel of light, he would be a good guy. That is what would need to happen for him to be a good guy -and it involves realizing that God was good all along -and should be obeyed.

 

[Milton Platt]

Let's assume that the Bible is like an honest news station... It tells you part of the story and it's opinion on it. The only part that is objectively true is the information about the story not the opinion.

The person who wrote the story where the prophets of Yahweh. So it was Yahweh's commentary mixed in with the events.

If you just look at the events it can be broken down to this.

1. Yahweh makes the angels in heaven.

2. Yahweh tells them what to do.

3. Lucifer (an archangel) speaks out against Yahweh with a third of the angels.

4. Yahweh casts the rebels from heaven.

5. Yahweh makes men and women as creatures ignorant of good and evil.

6. Lucifer convinces men and women to have the power to choose.

7. Yahweh punishes Lucifer, men, and women.

It seems to me that Lucifer is the great rebel trying to defeat an omnipotent tyrant.

To me Lucifer is a hero.

Ignoring the fact that none of these beings have ever been shown to exist......here is something else to consider.......
How would anyone know if either god or Lucifer was good or bad? The only thing you have to go on is a book which is said to be the inspired word of their god (for those who like to believe in the god). Exactly how do they make sure he is telling them the truth about anything? How do they know he isn't actually malevolent rather than benevolent? How do they know he hasn't concocted an incredible charade and duped them all? They can't depend on his truthfulness unless they can completely know the thoughts of a being who by definition would be mind-mindbogglingly intelligent. He could be laughing his *** off right now.

 

[1137]

At this point I don't really believe it matters what or who Lucifer was historically. While there was never any such one character in the Bible, nor was Lucifer the devil himself until later on, at this point it doesn't matter. We are talking about things not real in the first place.

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

If you just look at the events it can be broken down to this.

1. Yahweh makes the angels in heaven.

Where in the bible is this?

2. Yahweh tells them what to do.

Ditto.

3. Lucifer (an archangel) speaks out against Yahweh with a third of the angels.

Interesting. Lucifer is Latin. None of the biblical books were written in Latin. It is a translation/interpretation of the Hebrew deity Helel. In the Greek it is eosphoros. Neither Helel, Lucifer, nor eosphoros refers to Satan. That's post-biblical. Yet somehow angelology absent from the bible promotes to the status of archangel a translation of the Hebrew Helel such that despite the absence of Lucifer, archangels that are absent from the OT and indeed the Bible (excepting, if memory serves, two instances of ἀρχαγγέλος), speaks out in a manner which conforms far more to Dante and Milton than even apocryphal texts.

4. Yahweh casts the rebels from heaven.

And where, in the bible, is this cast out rebel identified as Lucifer?

Lucifer convinces men and women to have the power to choose.

Let's pretend that the serpent is Lucifer, despite the fact that even the Hebrew satan didn't refer to a specific entity until basically 2nd temple Judaism and the problem that the serpent isn't even identified as Satan let alone a Roman deity. What exactly did the serpent say to convince any male of anything?

7. Yahweh punishes Lucifer, men, and women.

YHWH punished Lucifer for the Eden incident? That's quite surprising. I didn't realize it was widely known that every believer in biblical texts recognized Lucifer as forever destined to be a snake, crawling on his belly and eating dust.

It seems to me that Lucifer is the great rebel trying to defeat an omnipotent tyrant.

Alternatively, you should try reading the texts you are critiquing before...well...critiquing them.

 

[NightDreamer]

I am tired of you people!

I was trying to do a mental exercise with popular Christian theology!!!!!

No I do not believe that the Bible is true; and I certainly do not believe that the Lucifer from popular christian theology is real!

By the Bringer of Light himself you all completely missed the point!

Ugh! I was not trying to debate whether or not popular christian theology lines up with what the Bible says!

If you read the Bible; Lucifer, the Serpent, and the Devil are completely entities and Sheol existed before Hell (Hades).

 

[JoStories]

I am tired of you people!

I was trying to do a mental exercise with popular Christian theology!!!!!

No I do not believe that the Bible is true; and I certainly do not believe that the Lucifer from popular christian theology is real!

By the Bringer of Light himself you all completely missed the point!

Ugh! I was not trying to debate whether or not popular christian theology lines up with what the Bible says!

If you read the Bible; Lucifer, the Serpent, and the Devil are completely entities and Sheol existed before Hell (Hades).

Wow...27 posts and you are tired of all the posters here who have been here months to years. Not very resilient are you? And then there is the fact that people have been trying to tell you that your view of Lucifer is erroneous, see posts by Jay and so on. Lucifer is NOT the devil or the serpent. Perhaps if you were not so clouded by wanting to follow the devil you might have a more open view. As it stands, you seem to not care one whit about any other opinion than your own. Boring, to say that least.