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Israel dragging USA down

Alceste

Alceste

Vagabond
YmirGF said:
Oh, don't let me spoil your anti-Zionist tirade, Alceste. What say we just push Israel into the sea and call it an afternoon?
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Amazing how people of a certain Pavlovian pro-Israel mentality equate advocacy for peace and human rights with antisemitism. It's a tacit admission that Israel violates human rights expressed with a curious and disturbing measure of pride.
 
JacobEzra.

JacobEzra.

Dr. Greenthumb
Father Heathen said:
Compared to its neighbors, Israel is a bastion of pluralism, secularism, religious freedom and democracy. Homosexuals and women have far more rights there than they do anywhere else in the middle east. If the palistinians were to get their own state, it would end up being another third world, totalitarian, theocratic cesspit. And the world already has more than enough of those.
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Yeah, so treating them like dogs is the better option.

Also, not all Arab countries are like Saudi Arabia. Nor is every Islamic state like SA. Look at Turkey and Egypt.
 
Shermana

Shermana

Heretic
JacobEzra said:
Shermana, there is nothing you can do to justify oppression. Its sad you try.
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You said "look at Turkey", I showed you Turkey, then you say this. What's more funny is how you brushed off the Catholic support for the Italian massacre of Ethiopians, and you call it "not in modern times", yet when I show you what Turkey is about, you instantly reflect to Israel, yet you've accused me of the same thing.

Are the Israeli citizen Arabs oppressed? Basically, any argument for Israel keeping its land as it is, you will call "Justifying oppression", but you'll absolutely refuse to examine the details of the truth of these issues. You refuse to discuss the Jordan option, for a reason.
 
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JacobEzra.

JacobEzra.

Dr. Greenthumb
Shermana said:
You said "look at Turkey", I showed you Turkey, then you say this. What's more funny is how you brushed off the Catholic support for the Italian massacre of Ethiopians, and you call it "not in modern times", yet when I show you what Turkey is about, you instantly reflect to Israel, yet you've accused me of the same thing.

Are the Israeli citizen Arabs oppressed? Basically, any argument for Israel keeping its land as it is, you will call "Justifying oppression", but you'll absolutely refuse to examine the details of the truth of these issues. You refuse to discuss the Jordan option, for a reason.
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lol I showed how Israel is much worse. Though Turkey does have its sore spots.

Whats even more funny is you making a fuss about other things. As if Ethiopia is relevant to our discussions. I wasn't around then and neither were you. Past tragedies does not justify your support for oppression.

Its a tragedy. Being oppressed and now being an oppressor. You ever wonder what your ancestors would think?
 
Shermana

Shermana

Heretic
JacobEzra said:
lol I showed how Israel is much worse. Though Turkey does have its sore spots.

Whats even more funny is you making a fuss about other things. As if Ethiopia is relevant to our discussions. I wasn't around then and neither were you. Past tragedies does not justify your support for oppression.

Its a tragedy. Being oppressed and now being an oppressor. You ever wonder what your ancestors would think?
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So you accuse me of trying to "justify oppression", yet you as I said, will brush off the Catholic justification of oppression and murder, but if you mention Turkey and I show the facts about Turkey, you instantly dodge and simply call Israel worse, the same thing you accuse me of. I assume you don't disagree with my statement that ANY argument for Israel retaining its current borders you will call "justifying oppression". I see you once again darted from the question of whether Iraeli citizen Arabs were oppressed. You keep making it personal about "The blood of the innocent cry out against you", "What your ancestors think", "What the Lord thinks", and guess what, I'm pretty confident the Lord agrees with me on this issue and disagrees with you, regardless of what you think.

Basically, any Catholic talking about justifying oppression is in a very glass house throwing heavy boulders, but if you don't think its relative to the conversation, since you're making it very personal about me, it shows that you basically justify whatever your own people do, and brush off the facts related to your accusations. Israel is NOT worse than Turkey, that's just cruel to the Kurds, the Kurds weren't even allowed to speak Kurdish in public. Imagine if Israel banned Arabic, and then call Israel worse.

Once again, are Israeli citizen Arabs oppressed or not?
 
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Alceste

Alceste

Vagabond
Father Heathen said:
Because more than that factors into morality, such as who was killed and why.
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Are you trying to assert that all the Palestinian casualties of IDF and settler violence are terrorists? Since IDF actions are indiscriminate and kill large numbers of civilians, isn't that tantamount to saying "all Palestinians are terrorists and therefore deserve to be killed"?

IMO, criminals should be arrested and prosecuted. You don't drop a bomb on a school because you suspect the principal of being a criminal. You investigate, gather evidence, and when the evidence is strong enough, make an arrest and go to trial.
 
JacobEzra.

JacobEzra.

Dr. Greenthumb
Shermana said:
So you accuse me of trying to "justify occupation", I assume you don't disagree with my statement that ANY argument for Israel retaining its current borders you will call "justifying oppression". I see you once again darted from the question of whether Iraeli citizen Arabs were oppressed. You keep making it personal about "The blood of the innocent cry out against you", "What your ancestors think", "What the Lord thinks", and guess what, I'm pretty confident the Lord agrees with me on this issue and disagrees with you, regardless of what you think.
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Its not about Israeli Arab, its about Palestinian Arab who lives in West Bank and Gaza. Israeli Arab has nothing to do with this. I never claimed they to be oppressed. I claim the ones living under occupation.

Thats fine you believe God wants you to kill and oppress. I know Jesus wouldn't agree. Got scripture to prove it to ;)

I know if my ancestors were still alive they would be horrified. Not only a secular Israeli government with no moshiach, but also one who oppresses people as bad as Czars and Kings did.
 
Shermana

Shermana

Heretic
Alceste said:
Are you trying to assert that all the Palestinian casualties of IDF and settler violence are terrorists? Since IDF actions are indiscriminate and kill large numbers of civilians, isn't that tantamount to saying "all Palestinians are terrorists and therefore deserve to be killed"?

IMO, criminals should be arrested and prosecuted. You don't drop a bomb on a school because you suspect the principal of being a criminal. You investigate, gather evidence, and when the evidence is strong enough, make an arrest and go to trial.
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Calling IDF actions indiscriminate is not only a flat out lie but basically denying that the Palestinians use deliberate use of Human shields.
 
Alceste

Alceste

Vagabond
FH, as far as behaving like animals is concerned:

The study... investigated 38 separate incidents of settler violence towards minors that resulted in the deaths of three children and injuries to 42 others.

Details of the attacks were set out in sworn affidavits and compiled in the report: "Under Attack: Settler violence against Palestinian children in the occupied Palestinian territory."
Such attacks are usually carried out in groups and tend to be characterised by verbal harassment, intimidation, physical assault and the destruction of property, the study found.

In 13 of the cases, settlers opened fire, killing three children and injuring another 10.
Physical assault and intimidation was also reported in 15 cases, and stone throwing in another nine incidents. Cursing and verbal abuse was documented in almost every case.
...

In eight cases, soldiers colluded with the attack by either joining in, turning a blind eye or punishing the victims rather than the perpetrators, it found.

The DCI study also found that Israel's failure to enforce the law and hold the perpetrators accountable for their actions had "created an atmosphere in which settlers enjoy impunity and Palestinians live in fear."

Veronica Naranjo, one of the DCI researchers involved in compiling the report, said that none of the settlers involved in the 38 incidents of violence had been prosecuted.
"Not one single settler was prosecuted in any of these cases," she told AFP, while indicating that some families had refused to lodge a complaint "for fear of retaliation."
"These attacks are carried out with impunity. Children need protection against these attacks, but that cannot happen without accountability," she said.
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AFP: Palestinian children 'victims of settler violence'

Can I assume you are OK with settlers shooting Palestinian children because you think they have better reasons?
 
Shermana

Shermana

Heretic
JacobEzra said:
Yes indeed. You want to kick ever Palestinian out of West Bank and gaza
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And have them move to "Jordan", which you have ducked out of discussing more than thrice. I wouldn't have ALL of them move, many of them are valued employees by Settlers who make more money than the average wage for them. The fact you don't seem to mind that Fatah and Hamas advocate the SAME EXACT THING for Jews reveals your obvious bias. Wait, nvm, they don't advocate the same exact thing, I would offer free bus rides to Amman, they would offer free rides to the bottom of the sea.
 
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