Laniakea
Not of this world
Yeah, that's what they were trying to say on October 7th. They "just want to be left in peace".
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Israel-Gaza : "Netanyahu vows no Palestinian state ..."
- Thread starter Jayhawker Soule
- Start date
Yeah, that's what they were trying to say on October 7th. They "just want to be left in peace".
Palestinians who wish to destroy Israel use the same argument. The entire history of the modern state of Israel has been the suffering of the Palestinian.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
No, Hamas is a political party who emerged and gained popularity as an opposition party to what was widely perceived as a corrupt amd ineffective party who was in charge (I forget their name).
And if you were stuck that that woulf be a dangerous underestimation of them. They are militants amd well trained, armed hooked up and lots of those groups are ran by legit smart guys, many who are formally educated (its sometimes even a Western education).
And the sorts who would be more suited for a Ninja Turltes cult they tend to avoid recruiting because mental instability and oppositional behaviors are a tremendous liability.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
The cracks may be showing.........
This morning the BBC reported that an Israel General has openly criticised Netanyahou over his policies, we heard that this general has lost a son in the fighting. I'm sad that I cannot remember his name.
I have always suspected that the Israeli leadership actually knew that the October 7th attacks would happen, I'm just hoping that enough troubles in the Israeli government might free up a bit of truth from its midst.
And in the meantime the atrocities continue.
At this point I honestly don't even know whether the general direction towards eventual peace has a place for the presence of Palestinians in the region.
What do you mean by "knowing that (the attacks) would happen"?
As in having a pretext?
I am not sure that can be made to make sense. It is at least an incomplete statement.
I am not sure that can be made to make sense. It is at least an incomplete statement.
Guitar's Cry
Disciple of Pan
What do you suppose the best option is?
FWIW, I tend to discount posts claiming prescience as being, at least in part, the product of bias.
What is clear is that stories such as ...
are anything but encouraging. Asinine appeasement tends to be an existential threat to coexistence.
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metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
In reality, that's besides the point as we well know what Hamas did on 10-7 and why. Israel had no choice to respond, plus realistically had no real choice as to back off their response and just return to the same ole, same ole. If missiles are raining down on villages, how can that be stopped without doing what the IDF is doing? [rhetorical] With hundreds of miles of tunnels in Gaza, many quite deep, they had to be dealt with. It's highly unfortunate as to the number of innocents that are being killed, but that unfortunately is the reality of modern warfare, especially urban.
BTW, our oldest granddaughter is now in Israel for two weeks preparing medical kits for both Israeli and Palestinian patients.
I suspect that history and context is never besides the point, especially when it goes far to explicate Palestinian attitudes toward Hamas and the PA. It also puts various rebderings of the "we gave the Gaza and look what happened" in perspective.
She's a blessing.
Rather than prescience, it could be that Israel
allowed the attack to happen, thereby creating
the pretext to eliminate Palestinians from Gaza.
Israel has made enuf announcements that it
intends this.
Colt
Well-Known Member
If you can’t beat them then join them!
Talking Hezbolla or the Houthi's ?
Copernicus
Industrial Strength Linguist
Based on an article in the NYT (behind a paywall), the Times of Israel has published this article, which is critical of the IDF goals in Gaza:
The NYT interviewed four anonymous "senior commanders", but the IDF has already rejected the claim that the war is unwinnable. However, the tunnel network, which was thought to be about 100 miles long is now estimated to be 450 miles long. There appears to be no way that the IDF can extricate the hostages in a way that they can survive, so diplomacy is the only solution.
Apparently, Hamas is reemerging in areas that the IDF has already cleared.
The Israeli government still appears to have no idea of when or how to end the war, but Defense Minister Gallant has this vision of plodding on:
IDF commanders said to believe quashing Hamas, returning hostages alive incompatible
The NYT interviewed four anonymous "senior commanders", but the IDF has already rejected the claim that the war is unwinnable. However, the tunnel network, which was thought to be about 100 miles long is now estimated to be 450 miles long. There appears to be no way that the IDF can extricate the hostages in a way that they can survive, so diplomacy is the only solution.
Apparently, Hamas is reemerging in areas that the IDF has already cleared.
The Israeli government still appears to have no idea of when or how to end the war, but Defense Minister Gallant has this vision of plodding on:
Just like WWII came after WWI sometimes the "fire" has to burn out in an orgy of destruction.
Anyone who did not expect that is naive.
Realistically?
One way would be a true occupation. I mean Israelis living there in Gaza with full protection from the IDF and a long, gradual work of destroying the tunnels and emptying Hamas and similar groups by political and economic incentives. Ideally it ought to be supplemented by some sort of encouragement to settling the Palestinians elsewhere, voluntarily and in neighbor countries if at all possible.
Another option might be some sort of well-publicized temporary exchange of voluntary hostages-for-peace, let's say for six months at a time. One of the main stumbling blocks of this conflict is the temptation of dehumanizing the people of each side. Exert diplomatic pressure over Fatah, Hamas and Israel demanding such an effort before terms for the continuation or resconsideration of military and economic support for both sides are decided. Allow both groups to live at the other side of the border for a few months them return with their history and memories of the time. Repeat. By all means, repeat that wide and often if at all possible. Give the leaders of each side solid reason to be scared cold in their bones by the prospect of using military, lethal force on people that have known names, faces, and history among people of their own side. Make widespread, worldwide announcements of those names, faces and histories and the people they know personally that may have been killed or harmed by the conflicts.
Probably unrealistic. But I truly wish it could happen.