Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
How else is genocide usually carried out? Singing bad songs to them?
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Israel is losing militarily and politically
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McBell
Unbound
Nice little dance you got there.
I take it you are conceding the point?
Seeing as it appears you will not address it.
That question makes no sense.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Only to you which is why you avoid the question.
Clearly you don't even know what your talking about because you didn't study what you posted in any depth.
I answer questions if they make sense
& aren't rhetorical. Don't blame me
for your poorly worded post.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Not my fault if you don't study the very subjects you post.
You over-estimate your wordsmithery
& intellectual prowess. If you really wanted
an answer to a question, you'd be willing
to re-state it more clearly. Instead, you seek
to claim victory by not getting an answer.
Such a common trick on RF.
I don't necessarily agree with everything here but he makes some valid points about how ideologies work.
blogs.timesofisrael.com
The strategic problem is, Israel’s definition of “winning” and Hamas’ definition of “winning” are different.
Our fundamental misunderstanding is the belief that we are fighting an army. That is wrong. Hamas is not an army. Hamas is not a group. Hamas is not a person. Hamas is not even every single Hamas member. Hamas is not even the leadership.
Hamas is an idea.
...
To Hamas, this is not a war of territory or soldiers lost. (Of course, as Israel promised not to annex Gaza.) This is a war for the world’s moral perspective changing from thinking Hamas are the “bad guys” to thinking Israel is the “bad guy”.
The world’s moral compass, the very lens through which the world sees what is right and what is wrong, is increasingly skewed to see Israel as the “bad guy”. So why wouldn’t Hamas continue? Soon, to them, international law will require an arms embargo and isolation of Israel, and recognition and arming of a “Palestinian state,” so the real war can begin.
...
Hamas is an ideological mindset hosted in the collective psyche of its members and supporters, but which supersedes and transcends any, and even every member. You cannot destroy Hamas by killing its members. Not even all its members, but certainly not its low-level members. That’s why the Jews were not just required by God to destroy all the Amalek, but all memory of them. If the IDF took out every Hamas member, Hamas’ memory would still live on in the Palestinian mindset, and reconstitute.
...
First to know, logic and reason can’t convince most idealogues. Such ideologies don’t spread randomly nor by sneezing like viruses. There are very specific reasons, rules, or “dynamics”, by which ideologies grow, spread,
...
I call such ideologies the puppet-masters of humanity’s wars. They seek to grow, spread, survive, and become more powerful like any other living organism. Ideologies in conflict are the superior and sovereign being, and individual human adherents are the mindless drones sacrificing their lives to strengthen the ideology.
...
The understanding of the dynamics of ideologies in conflict is the beginning of peace for Israel, and all mankind.
And that understanding is coming.
The true reason we’re not getting hostages back
From the blog of Daniel Ben Abraham at The Times of Israel
blogs.timesofisrael.com
The strategic problem is, Israel’s definition of “winning” and Hamas’ definition of “winning” are different.
Our fundamental misunderstanding is the belief that we are fighting an army. That is wrong. Hamas is not an army. Hamas is not a group. Hamas is not a person. Hamas is not even every single Hamas member. Hamas is not even the leadership.
Hamas is an idea.
...
To Hamas, this is not a war of territory or soldiers lost. (Of course, as Israel promised not to annex Gaza.) This is a war for the world’s moral perspective changing from thinking Hamas are the “bad guys” to thinking Israel is the “bad guy”.
The world’s moral compass, the very lens through which the world sees what is right and what is wrong, is increasingly skewed to see Israel as the “bad guy”. So why wouldn’t Hamas continue? Soon, to them, international law will require an arms embargo and isolation of Israel, and recognition and arming of a “Palestinian state,” so the real war can begin.
...
Hamas is an ideological mindset hosted in the collective psyche of its members and supporters, but which supersedes and transcends any, and even every member. You cannot destroy Hamas by killing its members. Not even all its members, but certainly not its low-level members. That’s why the Jews were not just required by God to destroy all the Amalek, but all memory of them. If the IDF took out every Hamas member, Hamas’ memory would still live on in the Palestinian mindset, and reconstitute.
...
First to know, logic and reason can’t convince most idealogues. Such ideologies don’t spread randomly nor by sneezing like viruses. There are very specific reasons, rules, or “dynamics”, by which ideologies grow, spread,
...
I call such ideologies the puppet-masters of humanity’s wars. They seek to grow, spread, survive, and become more powerful like any other living organism. Ideologies in conflict are the superior and sovereign being, and individual human adherents are the mindless drones sacrificing their lives to strengthen the ideology.
...
The understanding of the dynamics of ideologies in conflict is the beginning of peace for Israel, and all mankind.
And that understanding is coming.
They're still liberal.
But liberalism can include some terrible traits,
especially regarding Israel. They previously
supported apartheid. Now genocide.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
So, what would you suggest Israelis do?
In Rwanda, it was mostly machetes.
In Srebrenica, it was mostly guns.
In Darfur, it's mostly forced displacement.
Basically what's needed is for Israel to realize that the current situation cannot last forever and the cycle of pain and suffering must be broken. The list here is a brainstorm. It's the kind of brainstorm that Israelis should engage in.
1. Condemn and stop Jewish Settler violence against Palestinians. One Jewish voice said this If we want to retain credibility on Israel, we need to be brave enough to condemn settler violence
2. Reach out to Sunni government to discuss how to deal with Hamas as it's in their interest to oppose Iran.
3. Quietly negotiate with Marwan Barghouti given his stature to see what might be possible.
4. Clearly state that the cycle of hate and violence has to be broken and invite ideas about how to do it. This includes acknowledging that until peace is achieved organizations like Hamas will rise up and flourish.
5. State that the road to a peaceful future is hard and risky and will be slow but is worth the journey.
6. Make sure that non-Jews in Israel get the same benefits and infrastructure as Jews.
7. Utterly renounce ethnic cleansing.
8. Refer to Sura 8:61 in a call to start the peace process. Ideally done by an Imam who is interested in peace. ("And if they incline to peace, then incline to it and trust in Allah; surely He is the Hearing, the Knowing.")
9. Embrace the work of organizations such as Home - Alliance for Middle East Peace and give them seats in the planning process.
The reason the Israeli hostages haven't been returned is Israel.I don't necessarily agree with everything here but he makes some valid points about how ideologies work.
The true reason we’re not getting hostages back
From the blog of Daniel Ben Abraham at The Times of Israel
The strategic problem is, Israel’s definition of “winning” and Hamas’ definition of “winning” are different.
Our fundamental misunderstanding is the belief that we are fighting an army. That is wrong. Hamas is not an army. Hamas is not a group. Hamas is not a person. Hamas is not even every single Hamas member. Hamas is not even the leadership.
Hamas is an idea.
...
To Hamas, this is not a war of territory or soldiers lost. (Of course, as Israel promised not to annex Gaza.) This is a war for the world’s moral perspective changing from thinking Hamas are the “bad guys” to thinking Israel is the “bad guy”.
The world’s moral compass, the very lens through which the world sees what is right and what is wrong, is increasingly skewed to see Israel as the “bad guy”. So why wouldn’t Hamas continue? Soon, to them, international law will require an arms embargo and isolation of Israel, and recognition and arming of a “Palestinian state,” so the real war can begin.
...
Hamas is an ideological mindset hosted in the collective psyche of its members and supporters, but which supersedes and transcends any, and even every member. You cannot destroy Hamas by killing its members. Not even all its members, but certainly not its low-level members. That’s why the Jews were not just required by God to destroy all the Amalek, but all memory of them. If the IDF took out every Hamas member, Hamas’ memory would still live on in the Palestinian mindset, and reconstitute.
...
First to know, logic and reason can’t convince most idealogues. Such ideologies don’t spread randomly nor by sneezing like viruses. There are very specific reasons, rules, or “dynamics”, by which ideologies grow, spread,
...
I call such ideologies the puppet-masters of humanity’s wars. They seek to grow, spread, survive, and become more powerful like any other living organism. Ideologies in conflict are the superior and sovereign being, and individual human adherents are the mindless drones sacrificing their lives to strengthen the ideology.
...
The understanding of the dynamics of ideologies in conflict is the beginning of peace for Israel, and all mankind.
And that understanding is coming.
Mediators got Hamas to agree to a ceasefire deal that includes a return of Israeli hostages. Israel has rejected the deal because they won't accept a ceasefire.
Your source?
I recall it being all over the news that Israel
still planned to invade Rafah whether there's
a cease fire or not.
Obviously, Israel wanted only Hamas to
stop fighting, while Israel continued.
Hence the name "Jewish ceasefire".
Israel-Hamas War in Gaza and ICJ News
“The idea that we will halt the war before achieving all of its goals is out of the question,” the Israeli premier told relatives of hostages on Tuesday.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Not gonna work as Iran is a Shi'i nation bent on a holy war based on the Hadith.
The west is afraid of holding Iran responsible for one very big reason: OIL.
If you're going to demonize a country because the
dominant religion has violent scripture, then why
don't you apply this standard to Israel & Judaism?
Have an evidence based cogent argument
for this?
It appears wrong because Iranian oil tends
to benefit US enemies, eg, Russia.
Russia has plenty of oil. But Iran, Russia, China and the DPRK (North Korea) are at least somewhat allied.
Another answer to @metis comes from the Israeli government. The occurs during a time when Hamas is back in Northern Gaza. with heavy fighting occurring. I don't necessarily need to agree with all Gantz proposes but it seems like a good place to start reversing the slide of Israel into a status similar to North Korea.
The speech came a few days after Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant presented his public indictment against Netanyahu and his unwillingness to draft a post-war strategy.
He said the strategy must include forming a U.S.-European-Arab-Palestinian directorate in charge of civilian administration in Gaza that won't include Hamas and won't be under the authority of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas.
Israeli minister Gantz presents ultimatum to Bibi on post-Gaza war strategy
The speech came a few days after Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant presented his public indictment against Netanyahu and his unwillingness to draft a post-war strategy.
He said the strategy must include forming a U.S.-European-Arab-Palestinian directorate in charge of civilian administration in Gaza that won't include Hamas and won't be under the authority of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas.
- Gantz said another element in the strategy must be the normalization deal with Saudi Arabia that the Biden administration has been working on.