Israeli forces kill dozens of Palestinians in Gaza 'massacre'

[Revoltingest]

It doesn't, but it was a campaign promise, so surprise, a politician fulfilling a campaign promise.

Since Clinton, we've been promising to do this. I don't think we should be bullied into indecision by threats of violence but I'd suppose this has more to do with putting Israel first as an ally.

I've never expected a candidate running for high office to honor campaign promises.
The making of such matters not.
What does matter is whether carrying out the promise is good or bad for Americastan.
In this case, it violates his more important promise, ie, putting Americastan first.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Dozens of Palestinians were killed in Gaza and more than 2,000 wounded as the Israeli army fired live ammunition and tear gas at protesters assembled along the fence with Israel on Monday.

It was the highest Palestinian death toll in a single day since a series of demonstrations dubbed the Great March of Return began on March 30 - and since the 2014 Gaza war.

Of the hundreds of wounded, the Ministry of Health said at least 74 were children, 23 were women, and eight were journalists.
Israeli forces kill dozens of Palestinians in Gaza 'massacre'

Lord have mercy!

Israel has a disgraceful record of violence that makes it not look much better than its neighbors in a region disappointingly and chronically rife with morally bankrupt regimes. Perhaps it is time for worshipers and idolaters of Israel to see that it is not the beacon of progress in the region, but past incidents don't have me holding my breath.

 

[Nakosis]

I've never expected a candidate running for high office to honor campaign promises.
The making of such matters not.
What does matter is whether carrying out the promise is good or bad for Americastan.
In this case, it violates his more important promise, ie, putting Americastan first.

It's bad for America because...?

Does it matter that a majority of Palestinians don't even want to return to Israel? They seem stuck between Hamas and Israel.

The US should stay out of the ME? I think I'd agree with that but the oil...

For better or worse I suspect that is really what these conflicts are about. I mean why the US stays involved.

 

[Nakosis]

Israel has a disgraceful record of violence that makes it not look much better than its neighbors in a region disappointingly and chronically rife with morally bankrupt regimes. Perhaps it is time for worshipers and idolaters of Israel to see that it is not the beacon of progress in the region, but past incidents don't have me holding my breath.

What should Israel do? What would be the morally correct action?

 

[Revoltingest]

It's bad for America because...?

1) It cost us money, but with no ROI.
2) Violent unrest there correlates with terrorist attacks.
The last one looms financially far larger.

Does it matter that a majority of Palestinians don't even want to return to Israel? They seem stuck between Hamas and Israel.

Their politics concerns me only to the extent it affects Americastan.
However peace is achieved, that is what matters.

The US should stay out of the ME? I think I'd agree with that but the oil...

Our policy should be energy independence so that untrustworthy foreign oil isn't wanted.
Besides, we get far & away most from within N Americastan.
And the cost of mid-east oil is too high due to indirect costs.

For better or worse I suspect that is really what these conflicts are about. I mean why the US stays involved.

I disagree with the worthiness & efficacy of our foreign policy.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Israel was no less our ally before or after the move.
Dozens have died.
Thousands were injured.
This looks to continue.
This was predictable.
How does this figure into putting Americastan first?

Moving the embassy scored us some points with the current administration and strengthened that administration. Also it disentangled us from the negotiations a little bit.

I think it unfortunately stole the headlines from the Trump-Iran item. We reneged on a deal. That is a much more important item than this move. Reneging on deals weakens our currency in many theaters. It even weakens our position with Israel in the long run unlike this embassy move.

 

[Revoltingest]

Moving the embassy scored us some points with the current administration and strengthened that administration. Also it disentangled us from the negotiations a little bit.

And of what value are those scored points?
Does their value exceed our potentially increased
difficulties with the Muslim world?

I think it unfortunately stole the headlines from the Trump-Iran item. We reneged on a deal. That is a much more important item than this move. Reneging on deals weakens our currency in many theaters. It even weakens our position with Israel in the long run unlike this embassy move.

I agree, & dissed that move in other threads.
But both moves are potentially related...
Trump's commitment to Israel's interests over our own could
extend to their desire to move from cover to overt war with Iran.
We would be dragged in. It would be expensive.

 

[Flankerl]

ITT: Israel should just be invaded and let their citizens be murdered.

 

[YmirGF]

I feel sorry for the people who died and that their death was absolutely pointless. The "Palestinians" really need to think things through much better than this. Why would parents bring children to such a potentially volatile setting? That said, it might have been better optics had Israel used rubber bullets.

 

[Cooky]

Everytime the "Palestinians" break the fence, Israel will begin firing... Every time... Guaranteed.

...So why do it?

And then to act suprised..?

 

[Cooky]

What really blows my mind, is that parents take their children.

..What kind of parenting is that?

 

[Brickjectivity]

And of what value are those scored points?
Does their value exceed our potentially increased
difficulties with the Muslim world?

As we are in a position of strength momentarily it actually helps us, because politics are strange like that. Sometimes doing things people don't like reminds them how nice you have been and how they have behaved like knuckleheads. Sorry about that. Not always of course.

I agree, & dissed that move in other threads.
But both moves are potentially related...
Trump's commitment to Israel's interests over our own could
extend to their desire to move from cover to overt war with Iran.
We would be dragged in.

Overt war with Iran? We would possibly, and I think this time it might bring out our really nasty side, because sometimes war does. It would be a different America after that, sadder and less childlike. I hope not.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Well, add this to the school that was destroyed, along with the fence bordering the "[REDACTED] Israel" stance.

 

[columbus]

What really blows my mind, is that parents take their children.

..What kind of parenting is that?

Palestinian.
Palestinians regularly use children as cannon fodder. They generate rivers more sympathy in the media than twenty something dudes toting rifles and wearing black ski masks.
Tom

 

[Cooky]

Palestinian.
Palestinians regularly use children as cannon fodder. They generate rivers more sympathy in the media than twenty something dudes toting rifles and wearing black ski masks.
Tom

Unfortunately, that appears to be true.

 

[Revoltingest]

As we are in a position of strength momentarily it actually helps us, because politics are strange like that. Sometimes doing things people don't like reminds them how nice you have been and how they have behaved like knuckleheads. Sorry about that. Not always of course.

I see no increase in our power relative to Israel or anyone else.
Only costs to us.

Overt war with Iran? We would possibly, and I think this time it might bring out our really nasty side, because sometimes war does. It would be a different America after that, sadder and less childlike. I hope not.

Remember the Iraq war? It cost us a couple trillion dollars.
Ref....
Financial cost of the Iraq War - Wikipedia
So war with Iran would be worth avoiding.

 

[Sunstone]

Netanyahu must go.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Both sides stink like ****.
(someone had to say it)

 

[Brickjectivity]

I see no increase in our power relative to Israel or anyone else.
Only costs to us.

By now you are probably forgetting how we got to this talking point. Its a simple move from Tel Aviv to W Jerusalem. Yes it cost millions but Mexico is going to pay for it. Just kidding. and what I am trying to point out is that diplomacy is so expensive that the price of the move is not impressive.

Remember the Iraq war? It cost us a couple trillion dollars.
Ref....
Financial cost of the Iraq War - Wikipedia
So war with Iran would be worth avoiding.

A war with Iran would cost far more and take away much of the respect of the civilized world. At this point were we to go to war having reneged on our deal and with our recent history of fighting we'd lose many friends and it would be poo in our pants for a long time.

But I thought this thread was supposed to be about how Israel is just too touchy.

 

[Tumah]

I found this:

The Israeli military argues that the protests are taking place in the context of a long-running armed conflict with the Hamas terror group, and that open-fire regulations are subject to the rules of armed conflict. Such rules provide greater leeway for the use of lethal force than those governing law enforcement practices.

On Sunday, state attorneys defended the army’s use of live ammunitionduring clashes with Palestinian demonstrators on the border with the Gaza Strip, saying the rules of engagement are within Israeli and international law, and that the riots are not civilian protests.

The weekly marches, which are backed by Hamas, the terror group that rules Gaza, were originally described by their Palestinian organizers as nonviolent, but Hamas, which seeks to destroy Israel, publicly supported the protests and declared that their ultimate goal was to erase the border and liberate Palestine. Rioters have burned tires, hurled firebombs and rocks at Israeli troops, flown flaming kites over the border and repeatedly attempted to sabotage the security fence.

The Israeli army says its troops only open fire at demonstrators who engage in violence, or who attempt to breach the barrier separating the territory from Israel. Palestinian videos have emerged that purport to show soldiers shooting protesters who did not pose a threat. The army has accused Hamas of fabricating video footage or releasing only partial clips.

Israel’s use of live fire in Gaza protests faces legal test​