Israelites were polytheistic

[fallingblood]

Sure, early Israelites were henotheistic (proto-Israelites were probably polytheistic), and many were monolatrous. Looks to me like the majority were monolatrous heading into monotheistic by the Babylonian Exile of 586 BCE, though.

Like tumbleweed, this is what I've seen as well.

I think one of the biggest problems is that many people do not really understand what henotheistic or monolatrous even means.

 

[tumbleweed41]

The question is whether or not Satan is a diety -- or, if you'd prefer, whether a demigod is nevertheless a god.

Was Satan considered a deity, or demigod? My understanding was that Satan was/is a servant/angel of Yahweh.

I would think for the purposes of this discussion, angels, or supernatural beings subservient to God could be considered as not being deities in the strictest sense.

 

[outhouse]

That is what I have also seen. (But I am just a layman)

I would be game with that to if you could somehow prove or atleast have evidence that Yahweh was the primary deity at a certain time period.

we know during times of war that the population shifted to Yahweh and in peace back to others, this is all based on percentages of belief in yahweh, not a monlotry or henotheistic belief

 

[tumbleweed41]

I've got some Cherry Vodka and cola.

I prefer bourbon myself...but can't afford to be to picky.

 

[outhouse]

Like tumbleweed, this is what I've seen as well.

I think one of the biggest problems is that many people do not really understand what henotheistic or monolatrous even means.

I have a solid understanding

there is only evidence of this after 622 BC, not before.


show me worship of Yahweh as primary between 1200 BC and 622 BC and I will be glad to change my knowledge to reflect such evidence


you personally have changed my belief on my biblical topics, so you still have a chance.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I think one of the biggest problems is that many people do not really understand what henotheistic or monolatrous even means.

Or what religious pluralism means. We tend to understand the Josiah reforms through the murkey Deuteronomistic lens of 2 Kings

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I've got some Cherry Vodka and cola.

I knew this thread was heading for the toilet.

 

[tumbleweed41]

...this is all based on percentages of belief in yahweh, not a monlotry or henotheistic belief

You have these percentages?

 

[outhouse]

There actually is no debate to be had. This is true and the ancient Israelites lived in a world full of many gods.

I dont know about many that were considered primary.


we know they worshipped a family of deities

El, Yahweh, Asherah and Baal

 

[outhouse]

You have these percentages?

the percentages never reached monotheism as a governement rule until 622 BC and we know at that time yahweh wasnt primary and scripture dictates they were still fighting to make yahweh the primary deity


I have not seen any better work then this video, while not perfect, many scholars back this view whole hearted


[youtube]MlnnWbkMlbg[/youtube]
3.3.3 Atheism: A History of God (Part 1) - YouTube

 

[outhouse]

Or what religious pluralism means. We tend to understand the Josiah reforms through the murkey Deuteronomistic lens of 2 Kings

this is true

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

:biglaugh:

You have these percentages?

It's almost metaphoric: an outhouse as the seat of certainty.

 

[outhouse]

:biglaugh:It's almost metaphoric: an outhouse as the seat of certainty.

I dont do bad work, and its much better then one lined abrasive post with no added knowledge to the subject.

and I wont give a percetage as I dont know he exact numbers enough t do so. But a percentage is there, and that is a certainty

 

[tumbleweed41]

I dont know about many that were considered primary.


we know they worshipped a family of deities

El, Yahweh, Asherah and Baal

That is a bit simplistic.
El was essentially the "Father" god, or God Most High. Many Canaanite narratives have El siring three sons, Mot, Hadad and Yam.
However, attempting to categorize the gods worshiped in that period is like accepting Homers narratives of the Greek pantheon as an accurate representation of how the pre-Hellenists worshiped and described their gods.
Ba'al was represented in many ways throughout the area, ba'al being an honorific meaning master. We even see ba'al equated with el.


And Yahweh is not thought to be originally a Canaanite deity, biblically, it was Abram who equated Yahweh with El;


Genesis 14
18 Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine. He was priest of God Most High (El Elyon), 19 and he blessed Abram, saying,
“Blessed be Abram by God Most High (El Elyon),
Creator of heaven and earth.
20 And praise be to God Most High (El Elyon),
who delivered your enemies into your hand.”

Then Abram gave him a tenth of everything.
21 The king of Sodom said to Abram, “Give me the people and keep the goods for yourself.”
22 But Abram said to the king of Sodom, “With raised hand I have sworn an oath to the Lord (Yahweh), God Most High (El Elyon), Creator of heaven and earth...


(Please, any scholars on Jewish history and language correct any of my mistakes.)

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

That is a bit simplistic.

You're learning ... :yes:

Hey ... where's that popcorn! ​

 

[PMderry]

From what I was taught in Hebrew Studies classes, Judaism began as henotheist. In other words, there was a hierarchy of Gods where God was the "main" God but He was so unreachable that lesser Gods were used for intercession.

 

[outhouse]

Genesis 14

cannot be used for anything to determine historicity


it was written late and the work is so heavily fragmented it cannot be read as a single piece created at once to reflect any part of a culture due to the way the piece evolved over hundreds of years.


again, you cannot ignore a monotheistic redactors hand

 

[PMderry]

cannot be used for anything to determine historicity


it was written late and the work is so heavily fragmented it cannot be read as a single piece created at once to reflect any part of a culture due to the way the piece evolved over hundreds of years.

+1

Genesis itself has been pieced together by at least 3 different documents at entirely different times. That is why there are two entirely different Genesis accounts IN Genesis itself.

 

[outhouse]

From what I was taught in Hebrew Studies classes, Judaism began as henotheist. In other words, there was a hierarchy of Gods where God was the "main" God but He was so unreachable that lesser Gods were used for intercession.

you cannot use the term god because that is a modern term

you need to use specific names and times said dieties were primary, multiple or henothistic in nature


were talking about a evolution of deity worship as you know, from polytheism to monotheism which isnt up fro debate in any way shape or form

 

[tumbleweed41]

cannot be used for anything to determine historicity


it was written late and the work is so heavily fragmented it cannot be read as a single piece created at once to reflect any part of a culture due to the way the piece evolved over hundreds of years.


again, you cannot ignore a monotheistic redactors hand

As I said;

"biblicaly"

In other words, the author(s) wanted to convey that Yahweh and El were one and the same.