"It Doesn't Happen!" (e.g. trans women wrecking women's sports)

[icehorse]

I've voiced concerns about trans women competing against women in sports. Seems bad on many counts.

But "I've been told" many times on this forum variations on "it's not happening" and/or "you're being an alarmist" or "a conspiracy theorist" and so on.

Women tying to compete in Jiu-Jitsu might disagree with your assessments..

EXCLUSIVE: Women Abandon Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Tournament After Being Forced To Fight Males - Reduxx

 

[Revoltingest]

But "I've been told" many times on this forum....."you're being an alarmist" or "a conspiracy theorist" and so on.

Well, they're correct.
But the potential for trans women to
gain advantage over cis women is real.

 

[The Hammer]

Much ado about nothing:

"“NAGA does not require biological women to compete against transgender women. Instead, we give the choice to the biological women and if they decline, they compete in a division only with other biological women.”"

 

[Heyo]

Much ado about nothing:

"“NAGA does not require biological women to compete against transgender women. Instead, we give the choice to the biological women and if they decline, they compete in a division only with other biological women.”"

The problem doesn't appear to be that there is no policy but that the policy isn't enforced.
In the current climate of heated emotional debate about trans women in women's sport they fear to be called "trans-phobe".
I guess the debate has to cool down significantly before sports association can work out and enforce fair rules.
The Olympic committee has strict rules for testosterone levels and that seems to work to the extend that there is no dominance of trans women at any Olympic sport.
Other associations are still struggling with their rules and simply focussing on testosterone will not cut it forever as men who transition after puberty still regain some advantages.
And the transphobes who masquerade as feminists now are not helping, especially those who oppose even puberty blockers. Puberty blockers are an answer to the problem, not the problem.

 

[Kfox]

The problem doesn't appear to be that there is no policy but that the policy isn't enforced.
In the current climate of heated emotional debate about trans women in women's sport they fear to be called "trans-phobe".
I guess the debate has to cool down significantly before sports association can work out and enforce fair rules.
The Olympic committee has strict rules for testosterone levels and that seems to work to the extend that there is no dominance of trans women at any Olympic sport.
Other associations are still struggling with their rules and simply focussing on testosterone will not cut it forever as men who transition after puberty still regain some advantages.
And the transphobes who masquerade as feminists now are not helping, especially those who oppose even puberty blockers. Puberty blockers are an answer to the problem, not the problem.

Instead of separating according to gender, why not just separate according to biology?

 

[Revoltingest]

Instead of separating according to gender, why not just separate according to biology?

Not so simple regarding trans folk who've
medically fully transitioned. And what of
inter-sex athletes?

 

[Bthoth]

Instead of separating according to gender, why not just separate according to biology?

I think that is how the birth certificate box is checked but that made people upset too.

 

[Little Dragon]

I've voiced concerns about trans women competing against women in sports. Seems bad on many counts.

But "I've been told" many times on this forum variations on "it's not happening" and/or "you're being an alarmist" or "a conspiracy theorist" and so on.

Women tying to compete in Jiu-Jitsu might disagree with your assessments..

EXCLUSIVE: Women Abandon Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu Tournament After Being Forced To Fight Males - Reduxx

Yeah. Not really a major concern. Culture wars loses to financial problems at home and the looming specter of a global war.
Trans atheletes are absolutely at the rock bottom of the list of potential concerns for me at the best of times.

 

[icehorse]

Much ado about nothing:

"“NAGA does not require biological women to compete against transgender women. Instead, we give the choice to the biological women and if they decline, they compete in a division only with other biological women.”"

Oh that edit didn't misrepresent the context at all

Yeah. Not really a major concern. Culture wars loses to financial problems at home and the looming specter of a global war.
Trans atheletes are absolutely at the rock bottom of the list of potential concerns for me at the best of times.

Two reasons I think this is important:

1 - it's extremely misogynistic
2 - it's orwellian, 1984, 2 + 2 = 5 stuff. We need critical thinking, not magical thinking.

 

[Little Dragon]

Two reasons I think this is important:

1 - it's extremely misogynistic
2 - it's orwellian, 1984, 2 + 2 = 5 stuff. We need critical thinking, not magical thinking.

Misogynistic?
Orwellian?

Na. Just far more important priorities to consider. Like everything else going on.

 

[Kfox]

Not so simple regarding trans folk who've
medically fully transitioned. And what of
inter-sex athletes?

Why would fully transitioning matter? As far as intersex, it is so rare for an athlete to be intersex, but I can understand if an exception made for them depending on their issue, but I would say if you have the Y chromosome, you compete with the men, if you only have X’s you compete with the women.

 

[Little Dragon]

Why would fully transitioning matter? As far as intersex, it is so rare for an athlete to be intersex, but I can understand if an exception made for them depending on their issue, but I would say if you have the Y chromosome, you compete with the men, if you only have X’s you compete with the women.

You wait til the cyborgs want to compete, think you've got issues now.

 

[Revoltingest]

Why would fully transitioning matter? As far as intersex, it is so rare for an athlete to be intersex, but I can understand if an exception made for them depending on their issue, but I would say if you have the Y chromosome, you compete with the men, if you only have X’s you compete with the women.

Hormone therapy would reduce a trans woman's advantage
over cis women. Examples of highly successful sprinters exist,
eg, women with unusually high levels of testosterone.
They're given much grief about it, despite being cis women.

 

[Brickjectivity]

The sport could borrow weight classes from boxing. Its simple, and it works.

 

[Kfox]

Hormone therapy would reduce a trans woman's advantage
over cis women. Examples of highly successful sprinters exist,
eg, women with unusually high levels of testosterone.
They're given much grief about it, despite being cis women.

Steroids are illegal in sports; this would apply to everybody; even trans people. People with naturally high levels of Testosterone is acceptable because their testosterone level is natural.

 

[We Never Know]

Much ado about nothing:

"“NAGA does not require biological women to compete against transgender women. Instead, we give the choice to the biological women and if they decline, they compete in a division only with other biological women.”"

So is NAGA saying it isn't fair so do it only if you choose to?

 

[We Never Know]

Hormone therapy would reduce a trans woman's advantage
over cis women. Examples of highly successful sprinters exist,
eg, women with unusually high levels of testosterone.
They're given much grief about it, despite being cis women.

"Hormone therapy would reduce a trans woman's advantage over cis women."

There is that word again that many claim is hardly ever used.

Saying 'trans women' and 'women' already seperate the two

Why not just say...

"Hormone therapy would reduce a trans woman's advantage over 'women"

 

[Little Dragon]

The sport could borrow weight classes from boxing. Its simple, and it works.

Handicaps for other sports like track and field. Trans girls have to run on the outside lane..

 

[Brickjectivity]

Handicaps for other sports like track and field. Trans girls have to run on the outside lane..

That doesn't sound like it makes everything equal. For track use an MRI to classify muscle mass, bone length and all significant measures and begin establishing a formula, tweaked over time as data is collected. Set all runners back or ahead according to it. Make them really compete.

 

[Little Dragon]

That doesn't sound like it makes everything equal. For track use an MRI to classify muscle mass, bone length and all significant measures and begin establishing a formula, tweaked over time as data is collected. Set all runners back or ahead according to it. Make them really compete.

Well yes. Details!