It Is Now Legitimate To Question Jesus's Historicity

[KWED]

And we don't have primary sources for Hannibal either.

"The Greek historian Polybius and the Roman historian Livy are the two primary sources for his life." - Encyclopaedia Britannica

 

[rational experiences]

no one knows wtf youre talking about...

Normal behaviour from humans who lie.

Words were spoken before maths.

Humans did not own the objectives they discussed first. Object. I see it. And i observe it.

Created creation existed. Your maths hadn't created it.

Numbers did not exist in first add+ pretending I own mass was to convert it. Using numbers when numbers had not owned anything.

Mass is not maths. Otherwise first conversion no earth as one mass O would even exist. You would have chain reacted converted it.

Man possessed by machine instead of just living said I began from dust.

His machine did.

Possession of the scientist man seen observed stated.

 

[KWED]

Then you need to read more, I guess.

Or, given the debate nature of this forum and your claims... you could support those claims yourself?
Just a thought.

 

[Augustus]

I can't think of anything that couldn't have also been achieved without the intolerance and supremacism.
In fact, any "good" done in response to threats of violence or promises of reward isn't really "good" at all, in that sense. It's just self-interest.

What would you say was the "best" pre-modern culture?

 

[Sheldon]

And yet it is considered a virtue by the indoctrinated to believe these stories on faith alone.

Um, no it isnt. Where did you hear that?

Hebrews 11:1
"Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen."

Matthew 17:20
"Truly I tell you, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you."

 

[Sheldon]

F1fan said: ↑
Right, about the time when secular laws took effect and good, God-fearing, decent Christians couldn't torture a person to death for such questions.

No God-fearing Christian ever tortured anyone to death for asking such questions.

You're kidding right?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Most religions have unchangeable doctrines at their core. If they didn't I hardly think they'd be able to be called religion.

I can't think of a single Christian doctrine that hasn't changed significantly from the founding of the religion to modern day.

And having Jesus as a real figure is a doctrine of orthodox Christianity. I'm not sure why this bothers folks, really.

It's certainly a doctrine of most mainstream Christian denominations today, but the idea that there was no real, physical Jesus is as old as Christianity... arguably older than Trinitarianism:

Docetism, (from Greek dokein, “to seem”), Christian heresy and one of the earliest Christian sectarian doctrines, affirming that Christ did not have a real or natural body during his life on earth but only an apparent or phantom one.

Docetism | religion

 

[Windwalker]

Most religions have unchangeable doctrines at their core. If they didn't I hardly think they'd be able to be called religion. And having Jesus as a real figure is a doctrine of orthodox Christianity. I'm not sure why this bothers folks, really.

Do they? Even Jesus challenged Moses, quoting from Lev. 24:19–21:

“You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’ But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.

~Mt. 5:38-42
​

Seems to me Jesus had no problem uprooting old ideas and updating them with the new and improved idea. I see nothing wrong with re-imagining our ideas and beliefs about God, in order to adapt and evolve with the times. That is in fact what Christianity originally did, opening the doors to God without requiring them to follow all the old ways of circumcision, dietary observances, and whatnot. How is that a bad thing?

 

[rational experiences]

A human just a human we are all just humans who say I am a Christian.

No says human consciousness you are first just a human.

No they say back I am a Christian by scientific determined intelligence. Human.

Why did you become known as a Christian.

I had to establish my human criteria against satanic scientists. Just humans.

Who theories that I didn't exist.

Why?

They built machines to convert our holy God states.

By a constant machine applied destroyer removed holiness.

On purpose. Just humans like I am. But very evil minded humans.

Who if they converted into a machine body would be forced to not exist themselves.

That is right said all Jesus taught humans.

Our heavens are biological holy. Not mass stone rock holy.

What happened family?

Mass that ended O sealed as the earth he brought into and added mass into our gases. Where we lived.

We biological beings took up biological space.

He contradicted our being with stones mass. He tried to put a machine body into biology owned space.

As holy water took up waters empty space volume.
Gases had taken up empty space also as volume.

Biology took up another amount of space.

As the heavens also has space. As we walk through it. You cannot walk through a machine as you cannot walk through a mountain O earth sealed O God status O.

Oh that would be why I said CH that arose as a gas spirit in heavens Jesus said was Christ. Christ existed to baptize us by holding water at the ground.

I know all humans are in Christ a Christian. It was a scientific taught human advice for everyone. Why I preached it.

But brother Jesus they teach us we leave Christ. You cannot he said. Science Satanists lie.

Gases burning as light come from above burning. It should not burn falling.

Everyone always was with Christ and holy water he taught.

So today we say yep humans mainly water so what has a gas sacrificed in heavens gases got to do with us.

Oh just your brother's Satanists false claim you began as a machine had in its history from a burning gas conversion to get a metal.

He loves you really says Jesus he is just science possessed.

Why?

He took his mind back into evil and forgot he existed as a human first.

We all need to teach him he is evilly wrong in his mind. Consciousness.

We are Christians with Christ.

 

[Augustus]

"The Greek historian Polybius and the Roman historian Livy are the two primary sources for his life." - Encyclopaedia Britannica

The earliest written 40 or so years after Hannibal's death.

Near contemporary is generally considered a fairly good standard for ancient historical text though.

 

[PruePhillip]

"The Greek historian Polybius and the Roman historian Livy are the two primary sources for his life." - Encyclopaedia Britannica

Without looking this up - I understand neither of them lived in Hannibal's time or
interviewed anyone who did. If this is so we are back to square one - with a
primary source we need to discard a lot of ancient history. Trash it completely,
like we are doing with the bible.

 

[PruePhillip]

Nobody believes Hannibal, Plato or Cleopatra had magical powers or were of divine origin. Nobody even makes those claims.

We reject Jesus' magical abilities for the same reasons that we reject Aristotle's.

Well, Pliny claimed people had magical powers.
I take biblical prophecies to have magical powers - I mean, how did bible know the Jews
would be scattered all over the world, suffering persecutions and in the last days, when
the Gentiles no longer believe, that the Jews would return to take their nation by force, and
rebuild the desolate country.
And not only that, but that the coming of the Messiah would be the end of Israel, and he
would be believed upon of the Gentiles. It would be the Romans who would destroy the
Temple, the nation and the 'cut off' the Messiah who would die for his people.

Just two months ago we found that the magical destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, struck
from the heavens, actually happened in an air burst over the Jordan Valley 1650 BC, the year
when Abraham was celebrating his 100th birthday.

 

[DNB]

Those are faith beliefs anyways, they'll continue.

Their faith is derived from their conviction that Jesus lived, obviously.

 

[DNB]

Jesus isn't necessary for life after death. Well at least not to us non Christians

The question was in regard to the impact that discrediting Christ's existence would have on other Christians.

 

[DNB]

I agree with you, ...eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die.

No you don't, I believe that Jesus lived on earth, died around 33ad and was raised from the dead by God the Father, 3 days after his crucifixion. And, 40 days later ascended to his Father in heaven to be seated at His right-hand side for eternity.
There is absolutely no time or purpose to eat, drink and be merry.

 

[DNB]

You don't find the resurrection problematic? To my mind it's a bit of a salvation bounced check. The sins of man are apindfor by the death of jesus. Him coming back to life invalidates that payment. Makes for a murky theology.


Well, it seems the fear of death is crucial for Christianity to work. Could an afterlife be a bluff?

Christ did not pay for man's sins, his death, being the final Levitical Sacrifice (Yom Kippur), abrogated the Law which held us all condemned. He freed us from the chains of the Law that deemed us sinful before God. Christ was the only one who fulfilled the Law, therefore he was a perfect sacrifice, enabling God to rescind the Law, and justifying Him to raise Jesus from the dead as our Lord and Saviour (Jesus is not God).
This is where our faith lies, not in the payment of the unquantifiable sins of man - eternal death is the wages of sin, its payment cannot be exacted from anyone other than the culprit.

Death is real, and is worthy to be feared as all men do. Eternal life is in the hearts of all men, and it is there for a reason....

 

[lukethethird]

No you don't, I believe that Jesus lived on earth, died around 33ad and was raised from the dead by God the Father, 3 days after his crucifixion. And, 40 days later ascended to his Father in heaven to be seated at His right-hand side for eternity.
There is absolutely no time or purpose to eat, drink and be merry.

I recited the Nicene Creed, where those beliefs come from, many times. It consists of faith beliefs and this thread topic changes none of that. You believe it or you don't, biblical scholarship doesn't change that. The church did not collapse when it was discovered that the sun and all the stars do not rotate about the earth, so have a drink and be merry, and nevermind the drama.

 

[DNB]

Christianity was never intended to be a 'religion'. Jesus was a Jew, and remained a Jew. He wasn't trying to start a new religion. He was connecting God with humanity, regardless of man's religion. And the resurrection aspect of his story is the representation of the promise of spiritual resurrection that comes through our union with 'God within'.

Sorry, Jesus cannot be a Jew, and at the same time try to draw all men to God, including the Gentiles. It's either a new religion, or it remains the exclusivity of the Jews, and only proselytes allowed that convert to Judaism.

Jesus abrogated the Law, ending the Levitical precepts and the covenant of circumcision. As a Jew, he obeyed the Law in order to be deemed perfect, and consequently qualify for the final Yom Kippur.

For all intents and purposes, Jesus started a new religion.

 

[DNB]

The resurrection of a major religious figure is not necessary for belief in an afterlife.

The question was about Christianity, you weren't aware?

 

[DNB]

I recited the Nicene Creed, where those beliefs come from, many times. It consists of faith beliefs and this thread topic changes none of that. You believe it or you don't, biblical scholarship doesn't change that. The church did not collapse when it was discovered that the sun and all the stars do not rotate about the earth, so have a drink and be merry, and nevermind the drama.

Well, maybe next time you should consider citing a Christian creed?