• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

It is possible that Jesus sinned.

nash8

nash8

Da man, when I walk thru!
roger1440 said:
Nowhere does it say "obey".

New International Version
"Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land the LORD your God is giving you.

New Living Translation
"Honor your father and mother. Then you will live a long, full life in the land the LORD your God is giving you.

English Standard Version
“Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land that the LORD your God is giving you.

New American Standard Bible
"Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be prolonged in the land which the LORD your God gives you.

King James Bible
Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Honor your father and your mother so that you may have a long life in the land that the LORD your God is giving you.

International Standard Version
"Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live long in the land that the LORD your God is giving you.

NET Bible
"Honor your father and your mother, that you may live a long time in the land the LORD your God is giving to you.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
"Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live for a long time in the land the LORD your God is giving you.

Jubilee Bible 2000
Honour thy father and thy mother that thy days may be lengthened upon the land which the LORD thy God gives thee.

King James 2000 Bible
Honor your father and your mother: that your days may be long upon the land which the LORD your God gives you.

American King James Version
Honor your father and your mother: that your days may be long on the land which the LORD your God gives you.

American Standard Version
Honor thy father and thy mother, that thy days may be long in the land which Jehovah thy God giveth thee.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Honour thy father and thy mother, that thou mayest be longlived upon the land which the Lord thy God will give thee.

Darby Bible Translation
Honour thy father and thy mother, that thy days may be prolonged in the land that Jehovah thy God giveth thee.

English Revised Version
Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

Webster's Bible Translation
Honor thy father and thy mother; that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.

World English Bible
"Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land which Yahweh your God gives you.

Young's Literal Translation
'Honour thy father and thy mother, so that thy days are prolonged on the ground which Jehovah thy God is giving to thee.
Click to expand...

obey - definition of obey by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.
Honor - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary

Compare the definition of obey to the 2nd definition of the transitive verb honor, and see how they compare.
 
Terrywoodenpic

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
It is possible that he did things that might be thought of as sins today.
It is possible that he did things the Jewish authorities thought were sins.

The problem is with the concept of sin not with what he did.
 
idav

idav

Being
Premium Member
I think its entirely possible tha Jesus had natural urges. After all he was simultaneously mortal and immortal.
 
A

AmbiguousGuy

Well-Known Member
nash8 said:
Lastly, Paul actually traveled around specifically persecuting Christians, and he himself was a Roman citizen. So Paul himself is actually evidence for the idea that Rome persecuted Christians even at the earliest points in the life in Christianity.
Click to expand...

Roughly in what years do you think Paul persecuted Christians?

It seems that most scholars agree that Paul was in Jerusalem, meeting with some of Jesus' disciples, around 35CE or so(?).

So I'm curious about the time period in which he persecuted Christians?
 
nash8

nash8

Da man, when I walk thru!
captainbryce said:
They're still two completely different definitions. Living up to an agreement is not the same thing as obeying a command.
Click to expand...

Sound pretty similar to me. An agreement can command you to obey something after all.

AmbiguousGuy said:
Roughly in what years do you think Paul persecuted Christians?
Click to expand...

Probably between 30 - 40 AD

It seems that most scholars agree that Paul was in Jerusalem, meeting with some of Jesus' disciples, around 35CE or so(?).
Click to expand...

Where is this from?

[quoteSo I'm curious about the time period in which he persecuted Christians?[/quote]

Who knows? Dates from antiquity are so relative there really is no way of knowing anything. A timeline of atleast 10 years applies to any date from that time period. Whether it be Jesus' birth, crucifixion, Pauls persecution of Christians, and subsequent conversion.

I would argue that it would have been sometime nearly after Jesus' crucifixion, as I think Jesus' movement would have been much prominent and public before his crucifixion than most, including most scholars, would have you believe.
 
roger1440

roger1440

I do stuff
Hypothetically speaking let’s say when Jesus was 12 years old, on the way home from the Passover thingie he had stopped to defecate. During his defecation he had missed the last camel out of town. His parents didn’t realize Jesus was missing until 3 days later. Hey, it could happen. There have been times while I’m sitting on the toilet the phone rings. What’s a guy to do?
 
A

AmbiguousGuy

Well-Known Member
nash8 said:
Who knows? Dates from antiquity are so relative there really is no way of knowing anything. A timeline of atleast 10 years applies to any date from that time period. Whether it be Jesus' birth, crucifixion, Pauls persecution of Christians, and subsequent conversion.
Click to expand...

As a child and teenager I read furiously but had no education. It wasn't until young adulthood that I began to put together an historical and geographical picture of the world. Suddenly things began to crystalize. If I read 'A Tale of Two Cities' now it wasn't a magical, mythical story in some unspecified time and place but rather it was a series of events set in the French Revolution.

Likewise with the gospel story. If it really happened, it happened in a time and a place. We know the place, but what about the time?

So I'm trying to figure that out. Right now it is seeming to me that Paul wouldn't have had time to persecute Christians unless there were Christians around 0-10 CE.

If you have any interest, you can see my thread about Jesus/Paul Questions.
 
ChristineES

ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
AmbiguousGuy said:
I'm guessing that sojourner has encountered Deuteronomy many times. Why not just tell him (us) what you believe Chapter 13 has to do with Jesus?
Click to expand...

Yeah, and I've read it before, too and I visited the link. I ask the same question that Sojourner asked "What's it got to do with Jesus?"
 
CMike

CMike

Well-Known Member
ChristineES said:
Yeah, and I've read it before, too and I visited the link. I ask the same question that Sojourner asked "What's it got to do with Jesus?"
Click to expand...

Two things

1) G-D said that you may not add nor subtract from the law.

Therefore, the jesus "fulfilled the law" or changed it is a direct contradiction to what G-D commanded.

2) Jesus tried to lead jews astray. He was clearly a G-D not known to the jews. He was a false prophet.

G-D made it clear in at least 20 passages that there is only him, to trust only him, that he is one, and not to put your trust in anyone but him. I'll be happy to post these passeges upon request.

So jesus claiming to be a divine being is a direct challenge to the authority of G-D. Also by G-D saying only he is the saviour, and jesus stating how he absolved everyone's sins, that too is a direct challenge to the authority of G-D.

According Deuteronomy 13 that is a vary grave sin.

I think the chapter speaks for itself.
 
sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
CMike said:
Two things

1) G-D said that you may not add nor subtract from the law.

Therefore, the jesus "fulfilled the law" or changed it is a direct contradiction to what G-D commanded.

2) Jesus tried to lead jews astray. He was clearly a G-D not known to the jews. He was a false prophet.

G-D made it clear in at least 20 passages that there is only him, to trust only him, that he is one, and not to put your trust in anyone but him. I'll be happy to post these passeges upon request.

So jesus claiming to be a divine being is a direct challenge to the authority of G-D. Also by G-D saying only he is the saviour, and jesus stating how he absolved everyone's sins, that too is a direct challenge to the authority of G-D.

According Deuteronomy 13 that is a vary grave sin.

I think the chapter speaks for itself.
Click to expand...
Yah, except according to orthodox Xtian teaching, Jesus is fully G-D, and that G-D is one God in three Persons, so therefore is not a "different God."
And if the teaching is correct, then it seems to me that G-D is fully capable of fulfilling laws that G-D gave.
And, if the teaching is correct, then G-D cannot challenge G-D's authority -- no matter what Person we're dealing with.

Plus, "fulfilling" =/= "changing."

Sorry. I don't see it. If you're going to argue "Jesus," then Jesus must be argued from a Xtian POV, since Jesus is only available through a Xtian POV to begin with. And the Xtian POV is that Jesus is fully God. God cannot, by definition, sin against God's self.
 
O

OmoJesude

New Member
Jesus Christ has power over the law,He weakens the law in His wisdom,law is the strength of sin,He weakens sin through law,that is why He uses questions to answer questions by the law upholders.Jesus never sin He knew the secret and all the arrangements,satan came as usual but failed.
 
ChristineES

ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
CMike said:
Two things

1) G-D said that you may not add nor subtract from the law.

Therefore, the jesus "fulfilled the law" or changed it is a direct contradiction to what G-D commanded.

2) Jesus tried to lead jews astray. He was clearly a G-D not known to the jews. He was a false prophet.

G-D made it clear in at least 20 passages that there is only him, to trust only him, that he is one, and not to put your trust in anyone but him. I'll be happy to post these passeges upon request.

So jesus claiming to be a divine being is a direct challenge to the authority of G-D. Also by G-D saying only he is the saviour, and jesus stating how he absolved everyone's sins, that too is a direct challenge to the authority of G-D.

According Deuteronomy 13 that is a vary grave sin.

I think the chapter speaks for itself.
Click to expand...

We Christians are not going to see it that way and don't see it that way. Your answer is applicable for you since you don't view Jesus the same way as we do but it isn't applicable to us.
 
A

Awoon

Well-Known Member
ChristineES said:
We Christians are not going to see it that way and don't see it that way. Your answer is applicable for you since you don't view Jesus the same way as we do but it isn't applicable to us.
Click to expand...


Like wise Christians should never ever attempt to view and interpret the Tanac the way Jews do.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top