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It is the sort of person you are that counts.

J

JJ50

Well-Known Member
I am firmly of the opinion that it is one's personality, which is important, not one's religion, or lack of one. During my 69 years on this planet I have met many people, some were very good and decent who tried to help others as they went through life. I have also met some very bad people who abused children physically, sexually and emotionally, cheated on their partners, and those whose business dealing left a lot to be desired. The good people were both religious and non believers . Many of the bad people I knew were 'born again' Christians who were oh so holy in church, but evil sewer rats in their every day lives.:mad: Obviously I have met some very evil non believers too. Religion doesn't make you a good person, anymore than non belief makes you a bad person and visa versa.

If there is a heaven, good people, whether they are religious or not, should have access to it.
 
Rival

Rival

Diex Aie
Staff member
Premium Member
You need to leave your narrow Christianity box.

Christianity is the only faith I know that puts you into heaven (or whatever the equivalent is) based on beliefs. My faith judges you on deeds and intention, as does Islam, Zoroastrianism and many others.
 
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A Vestigial Mote

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
Darkforbid said:
Only if God rewards non believers
Click to expand...
Why all this talk of reward and punishment? Does it HAVE TO be so dichotomous? Where's the "neutral" option? As in - someone who doesn't care about being rewarded, and lived a neutral to majority-beneficial life. Where's that leave one?

Darkforbid said:
In your case those that question others beliefs
Click to expand...
And what is inherently wrong in questioning others beliefs? You say this as if it is automatically just wrong to question. Which is absolutely asinine, because it means that you are perpetrating this "wrong" all the time, from what I have seen. You question those that choose not to believe in God, or those that actively believe there is no God, all the time. If it is wrong to question, then boom... there you are doing it yourself. Or is it only wrong for non-believers to question, is that it?
 
A Vestigial Mote

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
JJ50 said:
I am firmly of the opinion that it is one's personality, which is important, not one's religion, or lack of one. During my 69 years on this planet I have met many people, some were very good and decent who tried to help others as they went through life. I have also met some very bad people who abused children physically, sexually and emotionally, cheated on their partners, and those whose business dealing left a lot to be desired. The good people were both religious and non believers . Many of the bad people I knew were 'born again' Christians who were oh so holy in church, but evil sewer rats in their every day lives.:mad: Obviously I have met some very evil non believers too. Religion doesn't make you a good person, anymore than non belief makes you a bad person and visa versa.

If there is a heaven, good people, whether they are religious or not, should have access to it.
Click to expand...
I liked this post a lot... right up until you involved heaven and "good-people."

The statement that people are people and some are what we consider "good" and some are not so good, regardless their religious stance, is a good one. But throwing "access to heaven" in there muddies the waters in my opinion. I don't think any of us should even be concerned about "heaven," to be honest. It's a pipe-dream, a fantasy, a hope borne out of desperation.

To be concerned about "access" gives too much credence to the idea in the first place, when it most assuredly doesn't deserve it.
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
but we end up alongside others that think and feel as we do

How else to be happy?
How else to be fair?
 
ChristineM

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
JJ50 said:
I am firmly of the opinion that it is one's personality, which is important, not one's religion, or lack of one. During my 69 years on this planet I have met many people, some were very good and decent who tried to help others as they went through life. I have also met some very bad people who abused children physically, sexually and emotionally, cheated on their partners, and those whose business dealing left a lot to be desired. The good people were both religious and non believers . Many of the bad people I knew were 'born again' Christians who were oh so holy in church, but evil sewer rats in their every day lives.:mad: Obviously I have met some very evil non believers too. Religion doesn't make you a good person, anymore than non belief makes you a bad person and visa versa.

If there is a heaven, good people, whether they are religious or not, should have access to it.
Click to expand...


I agree 100%.
 
Darkforbid

Darkforbid

Well-Known Member
A Vestigial Mote said:
Why all this talk of reward and punishment? Does it HAVE TO be so dichotomous? Where's the "neutral" option? As in - someone who doesn't care about being rewarded, and lived a neutral to majority-beneficial life. Where's that leave one?

And what is inherently wrong in questioning others beliefs? You say this as if it is automatically just wrong to question. Which is absolutely asinine, because it means that you are perpetrating this "wrong" all the time, from what I have seen. You question those that choose not to believe in God, or those that actively believe there is no God, all the time. If it is wrong to question, then boom... there you are doing it yourself. Or is it only wrong for non-believers to question, is that it?
Click to expand...

It's an active choice rejecting God
 
A Vestigial Mote

A Vestigial Mote

Well-Known Member
Darkforbid said:
It's an active choice rejecting God
Click to expand...
Not for everyone. Plenty of people have lived and died only hearing the tales and knowing the things their own culture told and knew - and in plenty of those cases, "God" didn't come into the conversation. There are entire tribes that have been discovered that do not have god concepts.

But even with it being an active choice to reject God for the majority of people who do - what is the real problem with this? Does God actually give a good reason for maintaining that those who do not believe in Him are doomed in some way? Does He give a useful, rational, practical reason that this is the case? Even if it IS the case... does God make His case as to WHY? If He doesn't (and I am pretty sure reasoning on this point isn't even mentioned in religious scripture), then that is a GROSS negligence on His part. As a parent, I make it a point to NEVER tell my kids things they must do while using ridiculously flimsy, inadequate justifications like "You live under my roof, you live by my rules." That kind of rationalization is for idiots... morons who don't have the ability to be honest with their children, or who don't have the intelligence to take things to their logical conclusions and either discover the real-world consequences they are trying to protect their children from, or realize that there are truly none, and come to grips with the fact that what they are telling their children is nothing more than their baseless opinion.

And that's where God stands with this dictate that "you must believe." No rational justification is given. He is a poor parent for that very reason. An idiot. A moron. He has no base upon which to stand with His edicts. He needs to rethink His campaign, and come back with something more compelling. As it stands, I feel I have no choice but to ignore Him, and all those who pretend to speak for Him as well.
 
Nakosis

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
JJ50 said:
I am firmly of the opinion that it is one's personality, which is important, not one's religion, or lack of one. During my 69 years on this planet I have met many people, some were very good and decent who tried to help others as they went through life. I have also met some very bad people who abused children physically, sexually and emotionally, cheated on their partners, and those whose business dealing left a lot to be desired. The good people were both religious and non believers . Many of the bad people I knew were 'born again' Christians who were oh so holy in church, but evil sewer rats in their every day lives.:mad: Obviously I have met some very evil non believers too. Religion doesn't make you a good person, anymore than non belief makes you a bad person and visa versa.

If there is a heaven, good people, whether they are religious or not, should have access to it.
Click to expand...

Even if there isn't a heaven, same applies. Religion for the most part is pretty irrelevant when it comes to a person. I certainly don't judge folks by their religion.

Still I find myself from time to time judging their religion.
 
Srivijaya

Srivijaya

Active Member
Darkforbid said:
People can reject all current theology and still have their own personal belief, if that's what you're asking
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Accepting a theological teaching, or nurturing a personal belief... or rejecting both. What is actually accepted or rejected? God?
 
Spartan

Spartan

Well-Known Member
JJ50 said:
Many of the bad people I knew were 'born again' Christians who were oh so holy in church, but evil sewer rats in their every day lives.
Click to expand...

I suppose many of those were dissed by you because they didn't embrace illicit gay and lesbian debauchery.
 
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