It just makes so much sense...

[nPeace]

The spirit is the life that God put into Adam's body. Let's go over that a little, shall we? We agree that God told Adam he was dust, and he would return to the dust. And Adam was not told anything about his spirit, was he? Perhaps we can discuss exactly later on what the spirit is that returns to God who gave the spirit.

The spirit is the force of life. It's what keeps man alive.
Did you by any chance read that God told Adam his body would die? I do recall God saying, "you [- not your body -] will certainly die." Genesis 2:17

Why do you suppose persons substituted "you" with "your body"?
I think they do so in order to support the lie the Serpent told, that "you" will not die. So they say, it's "your body", instead.

(Genesis 3:4) At this the serpent said to the woman: “You certainly will not die.
Isn't that deliberately contradicting God?
Do people actually realize what a serious position in opposition to God they have chosen, by siding with Satan on this?

 

[nPeace]

.

2 Peter 3:13
But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

Revelation 21:1
Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.

Isaiah 66:22
“For as the new heavens and the new earth that I make shall remain before me, says the Lord, so shall your offspring and your name remain.

Psalm 37:29
The righteous shall inherit the land and dwell upon it forever.

...And...
(Revelation 20:3) And he hurled him into the abyss and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not mislead the nations anymore until the 1,000 years were ended. After this he must be released for a little while.

(Revelation 20:7-8) 7 Now as soon as the 1,000 years have ended, Satan will be released from his prison, 8 and he will go out to mislead those nations in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war. The number of these is as the sand of the sea.

(Acts of the Apostles 24:15) And I have hope toward God, which hope these men also look forward to, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.

 

[Trailblazer]

Human Decomposition
According to Dr. Arpad A. Vass, a Senior Staff Scientist at Oak Ridge National Laboratory and Adjunct Associate Professor at the University of Tennessee in Forensic Anthropology, human decomposition begins around four minutes after a person dies and follows four stages: autolysis, bloat, active decay, and skeletonization.

(John 11:22-27) 22 Yet even now I know that whatever you ask God for, God will give you.” 23 Jesus said to her: “Your brother will rise.” 24 Martha said to him: “I know he will rise in the resurrection on the last day.” 25 Jesus said to her: “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who exercises faith in me, even though he dies, will come to life; 26 and everyone who is living and exercises faith in me will never die at all. Do you believe this?” 27 She said to him: “Yes, Lord, I have believed that you are the Christ, the Son of God, the one coming into the world.”
(John 11:38-44) 38 Then Jesus, after groaning again within himself, came to the tomb. It was, in fact, a cave, and a stone was lying against it. 39 Jesus said: “Take the stone away.” Martha, the sister of the deceased, said to him: “Lord, by now he must smell, for it has been four days.” 40 Jesus said to her: “Did I not tell you that if you would believe you would see the glory of God?” 41 So they took the stone away. Then Jesus raised his eyes heavenward and said: “Father, I thank you that you have heard me. 42 True, I knew that you always hear me; but I spoke on account of the crowd standing around, so that they may believe that you sent me.” 43 When he had said these things, he cried out with a loud voice: “Lazarus, come out!” 44 The man who had been dead came out with his feet and hands bound with wrappings, and his face was wrapped with a cloth. Jesus said to them: “Free him and let him go.”

Jesus did not say that the body of Lazarus would rise again. He said rise: 23 Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.”

Then apparently Martha assumed Jesus meant the body: 24 Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”

Then Jesus said that He was the resurrection and the life and that whoever believes in Him will never die.
He was talking about the eternal life of the soul, NOT the eternal life of the physical body.

25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. 26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

The Martha said she believed in Jesus and that He was the Son of God: 27 She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”

When Jesus said: 26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die He was referring to spiritual death, not physical death, because eventually everyone dies physically.

The following verses congruent with John 11:25-26 refer to the eternal life of the soul, not the eternal life of the body.

John 3:16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

 

[Trailblazer]

.
2 Peter 3:13
But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

Revelation 21:1
Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.

Isaiah 66:22
“For as the new heavens and the new earth that I make shall remain before me, says the Lord, so shall your offspring and your name remain.

Psalm 37:29
The righteous shall inherit the land and dwell upon it forever.

I see nothing in those verses that says we will physically exist again on the new earth if we are part of the redeemed.
It 's just not there.

There will be a new heaven and a new earth, but no verses say that dead people will rise from their graves and live on earth forever.

The righteous living people shall inherit the land and dwell upon it forever.

 

[Wildswanderer]

I see nothing in those verses that says we will physically exist again on the new earth if we are part of the redeemed.
It 's just not there.

There will be a new heaven and a new earth, but no verses say that dead people will rise from their graves and live on earth forever.

The righteous living people shall inherit the land and dwell upon it forever.

For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

Combine this with the new Jerusalem coming down to earth from heaven and perhaps you will begin to understand where our permanent dwelling place is.

 

[Trailblazer]

For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

Combine this with the new Jerusalem coming down to earth from heaven and perhaps you will begin to understand where our permanent dwelling place is.

Combine verse x with verse y and verse z and you can believe just about anything!

Just like all Christians, you can make the Bible say whatever you want it to say so you can believe whatever you want to believe.
You can also select verses to support what you want to believe.
You can also interpret verses literally or figuratively.

"the dead in Christ will rise first."
I believe that means that when Christ returns those who have forgotten Christ will awaken and rise from spiritual ignorance.
You believe that means that they will literally rise from their graves.

The reason some Christians believe they will go to heaven after they die and some Christians believe they will be raised to live on earth for eternity is because they are selecting different verses and interpreting the verses to mean different things.

Where is the New Jerusalem? It is on earth. How did it come down from heaven?
Where is the Father's house? It is in heaven, not on earth.

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

 

[YoursTrue]

No. What I said was ...

​

What I believe about the matter is that I don't know. What I suspect about the matter is that there is no afterlife. I'm sorry if the distinction is not clear.

Thank you. Now you made it clear. So here's how I look at it: belief, suspicion, and hope are three different words.

 

[YoursTrue]

Combine verse x with verse y and verse z and you can believe just about anything!

Just like all Christians, you can make the Bible say whatever you want it to say so you can believe whatever you want to believe.
You can also select verses to support what you want to believe.
You can also interpret verses literally or figuratively.

"the dead in Christ will rise first."
I believe that means that when Christ returns those who have forgotten Christ will awaken and rise from spiritual ignorance.
You believe that means that they will literally rise from their graves.

The reason some Christians believe they will go to heaven after they die and some Christians believe they will be raised to live on earth for eternity is because they are selecting different verses and interpreting the verses to mean different things.

Where is the New Jerusalem? It is on earth. How did it come down from heaven?
Where is the Father's house? It is in heaven, not on earth.

John 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

And so now I will ask you -- where are you getting your interpretation from?

 

[YoursTrue]

For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.

After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

Combine this with the new Jerusalem coming down to earth from heaven and perhaps you will begin to understand where our permanent dwelling place is.

Let me put it to you this way: Is Christ going to live on the earth in person, in flesh, forever, when in fact there are many other places in the universe and spiritual realm (like heaven and I'm not talking about the physical heavens necessarily where the planets, stars, moons, etc. are.)?

 

[YoursTrue]

Technically it's just a continuation of life. We call it the afterlife because it's after our physical existence here. BTW, we will physically exist again on the new earth if we are part of the redeemed.

OK, got it. Maybe. So life as far as you understand, ends when the physical body dies? Just checking as for definition...thanks.

 

[nPeace]

Jesus did not say that the body of Lazarus would rise again. He said rise: 23 Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.”

The Bible does not say that God brings people back from a state of Decomposition.

Are you saying people are the body?

Jesus, nor any part of the Bible, said anything about the body rising.
Both Jesus and the Bible said people will rise. Not bodies.
"Your brother will rise again."
Not "Your brother's body will rise again."

Do you believe the person is the body?

Then apparently Martha assumed Jesus meant the body: 24 Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”

Where did the Bible say Martha assumed such? Nowhere.
You assumed Martha assumed what you assume.
Martha correctly stated... “I know that he [Not 'His body'] will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”
The Bible never said Martha assumed... Where?

Then Jesus said that He was the resurrection and the life and that whoever believes in Him will never die.
He was talking about the eternal life of the soul, NOT the eternal life of the physical body.

Where does the Bible say Jesus was talking about the eternal life of the soul? Nowhere.
You say that. Not Jesus. Not the Bible.

25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. 26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

The Martha said she believed in Jesus and that He was the Son of God: 27 She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”

When Jesus said: 26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die He was referring to spiritual death, not physical death, because eventually everyone dies physically.

Where does the Bible say Jesus was referring to spiritual death when he said 'whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die'? Nowhere.
You say that. Not Jesus. Not the Bible.

The following verses congruent with John 11:25-26 refer to the eternal life of the soul, not the eternal life of the body.

John 3:16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

That's what you believe.
I don't know why you keep referring to the body. Do you believe the person is the body?
If not, referring to the body is not relevant, since the Bible refers to resurrection of persons, not their body.

(John 6:39-40) 39 This is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose none out of all those whom he has given me, but that I should resurrect them on the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who recognizes the Son and exercises faith in him should have everlasting life, and I will resurrect him on the last day.”

(John 6:44) No man can come to me unless the Father, who sent me, draws him, and I will resurrect him on the last day.

(John 6:54) Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has everlasting life, and I will resurrect him on the last day. . .

 

[YoursTrue]

That's true, but according to the Bible the new body will be a spiritual body, not a physical body.

1 Corinthians 15:40-54 New Living Translation

40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies.

44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.

51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!

54 Then, when our dying bodies have been transformed into bodies that will never die,[c] this Scripture will be fulfilled: “Death is swallowed up in victory.[d]

Read full chapter

Explain, please. Many believe that the body Christ was resurrected in was a physical body. And they also don't really believe that Christ died at all. 1 Cor. 15:40-54 certainly brings out some very important points. So now when a person inherits something, what does that mean, do you think? For instance, if I inherit property from a parent, it's mine when it's legally certified, isn't it?

 

[nPeace]

OK, got it. Maybe. So life as far as you understand, ends when the physical body dies? Just checking as for definition...thanks.

No. He doesn't believe life ends.

 

[Trailblazer]

And so now I will ask you -- where are you getting your interpretation from?

I make my own interpretations and they are based upon what I know from the interpretations that have been made by the central figures of the Baha'i Faith.

 

[nPeace]

Jesus did not say that the body of Lazarus would rise again. He said rise: 23 Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.”

Then apparently Martha assumed Jesus meant the body: 24 Martha said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”

Then Jesus said that He was the resurrection and the life and that whoever believes in Him will never die.
He was talking about the eternal life of the soul, NOT the eternal life of the physical body.

25 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. 26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

The Martha said she believed in Jesus and that He was the Son of God: 27 She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.”

When Jesus said: 26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die He was referring to spiritual death, not physical death, because eventually everyone dies physically.

The following verses congruent with John 11:25-26 refer to the eternal life of the soul, not the eternal life of the body.

John 3:16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

Just caught myself.
What does any of this have to do with the fact that the Bible does say that God brings people back from a state of decomposition, which debunks your claim?

 

[Trailblazer]

Are you saying people are the body?

Jesus, nor any part of the Bible, said anything about the body rising.
Both Jesus and the Bible said people will rise. Not bodies.
"Your brother will rise again."
Not "Your brother's body will rise again."

Do you believe the person is the body?

No, I do not believe that the person or people are their body. I believe the soul is the person.

Where did the Bible say Martha assumed such? Nowhere.
You assumed Martha assumed what you assume.
Martha correctly stated... “I know that he [Not 'His body'] will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”
The Bible never said Martha assumed... Where?

So who do you think he is, if it is not referring to his body?
What will rise again in the resurrection at the last day?

Where does the Bible say Jesus was talking about the eternal life of the soul? Nowhere.
You say that. Not Jesus. Not the Bible.

Where does the Bible say Jesus was talking about the eternal life of the body? Nowhere.
Christians say that. Not Jesus. Not the Bible.

Where does the Bible say Jesus was referring to spiritual death when he said 'whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die'? Nowhere.
You say that. Not Jesus. Not the Bible.

Where does the Bible say Jesus was referring to physical death when he said 'whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die'? Nowhere.
Christians say that. Not Jesus. Not the Bible.

That's what you believe.
I don't know why you keep referring to the body. Do you believe the person is the body?
If not, referring to the body is not relevant, since the Bible refers to resurrection of persons, not their body.

What is the resurrection of persons? What is them and him referring to in the verses you cited?

(John 6:39-40) 39 This is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose none out of all those whom he has given me, but that I should resurrect them on the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who recognizes the Son and exercises faith in him should have everlasting life, and I will resurrect him on the last day.”

(John 6:44) No man can come to me unless the Father, who sent me, draws him, and I will resurrect him on the last day.

(John 6:54) Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has everlasting life, and I will resurrect him on the last day.

 

[Trailblazer]

Just caught myself.
What does any of this have to do with the fact that the Bible does say that God brings people back from a state of decomposition, which debunks your claim?

The Bible does not say that God brings people back from a state of decomposition, which debunks your claim.

 

[nPeace]

No, I do not believe that the person or people are their body. I believe the soul is the person.

Then why do you keep talking about rising of the body, and substituting people for the body?

So who do you think he is, if it is not referring to his body?
What will rise again in the resurrection at the last day?

Didn't you read the Bible? It says he, didn't it?
No need to "interpret" it as anything else. The subject is Lazarus... is it not?

Where does the Bible say Jesus was talking about the eternal life of the body? Nowhere.
Christians say that. Not Jesus. Not the Bible.

Ha Ha.

Where does the Bible say Jesus was referring to physical death when he said 'whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die'? Nowhere.
Christians say that. Not Jesus. Not the Bible.

Ha Ha Ha.

What is the resurrection of persons? What is them and him referring to in the verses you cited?

Why do Bahais want to change every word in the Bible to mean something other than what is stated?

 

[nPeace]

The Bible does not say that God brings people back from a state of decomposition, which debunks your claim.

Didn't Lazarus decompose?

 

[Trailblazer]

Explain, please. Many believe that the body Christ was resurrected in was a physical body. And they also don't really believe that Christ died at all.

I know that many people believe that but I do not believe it. I believe that Christ's physical body died on the cross and His soul ascended to heaven and that Christ is alive in a spiritual body in heaven at the right hand of God, where He will live forever.

1 Cor. 15:40-54 certainly brings out some very important points. So now when a person inherits something, what does that mean, do you think? For instance, if I inherit property from a parent, it's mine when it's legally certified, isn't it?

"that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever."

In the context of the verses inherit means exist in. Our physical bodies cannot exist in the Kingdom of God, and that means they cannot exist in Heaven.

When Paul says these dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever, he is referring to the spiritual world (Heaven), which will last forever. Our physical bodies will die and we will be raised (resurrected) as spiritual bodies that will be suited to go to Heaven and last forever.