It just makes so much sense...

[Trailblazer]

It does make so much sense for me what the Bible says. Adam was told not to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil otherwise he would -- die. Die? So what is "afterlife"? Does that mean after -- life? After life? After life, then what? More life?
To use an illustration, if someone says, "Can you come here AFTER you finish your meal," does that mean I still am having my meal AFTER I finish having it? So is a person alive after life?

The Bible does not say that God brings people back from a state of Decomposition. That belief came about because of a misinterpretation of scriptures. I believe that Paul was talking about a spiritual resurrection, not a physical one.

God made the natural laws, and Decomposition is one of the natural laws. Bodies die and decompose and the soul (spirit) then passes from this world into another world. The man himself continues to live since man is not a man because of his body but because of his spirit, for it is the spirit that thinks in man, and thought is what constitutes man.

I believe that the death of man is merely his soul passing from one world into another and when the soul passes from this world into the spiritual world it takes on a new form comprised of spiritual elements. Since there is nothing physical (e.g., oxygen, water, food) in the spiritual world (heaven) a physical body cannot exist there and is of no use to anyone. I also believe that Jesus is alive in heaven in a spiritual body that is immortal, not alive in a physical body.

The following quote explains what I believe happens to our body and our spirit (soul) when we die physically. It's pretty straightforward and was written by a bible-believing Christian.

421. When the body is no longer able to perform the bodily functions in the natural world that correspond to the spirit’s thoughts and affections, which the spirit has from the spiritual world, man is said to die. This takes place when the respiration of the lungs and the beatings of the heart cease. But the man does not die; he is merely separated from the bodily part that was of use to him in the world, while the man himself continues to live. It is said that the man himself continues to live since man is not a man because of his body but because of his spirit, for it is the spirit that thinks in man, and thought with affection is what constitutes man. Evidently, then, the death of man is merely his passing from one world into another. And this is why in the Word in its internal sense “death” signifies resurrection and continuation of life. Heaven and Hell, p. 351

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was, and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

 

[Clara Tea]

It does make so much sense for me what the Bible says. Adam was told not to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil otherwise he would -- die. Die? So what is "afterlife"? Does that mean after -- life? After life? After life, then what? More life?
To use an illustration, if someone says, "Can you come here AFTER you finish your meal," does that mean I still am having my meal AFTER I finish having it? So is a person alive after life?

Tree of the knowledge of good and evil - Wikipedia

According to the hypertext link above, Jews used to think that good and evil were separate, but having eaten from the tree of knowledge, good and evil mixed.

Maybe in the Garden of Eden, Adam (and maybe also Eve) were immortal (couldn't die)?

Presumably, at least some souls have eternal life. But, that isn't necessarily permanent life in heaven. Nor is heaven a permanent residence. After all, once Satan was in heaven, and he was cast into hell. So, that means that maybe we could make it to heaven, but if we change (or if God gets angry), we might be pushed out of heaven and into hell.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

OK, let me try to further explain that part. Would you say there is there life "after" life? Or -- what happens after life?

It seems that the OP reference to Genesis was a case of rambling, a case of confusion, or, perhaps, both.

As for an afterlife, I suspect not.

 

[YoursTrue]

Tree of the knowledge of good and evil - Wikipedia

According to the hypertext link above, Jews used to think that good and evil were separate, but having eaten from the tree of knowledge, good and evil mixed.

Maybe in the Garden of Eden, Adam (and maybe also Eve) were immortal (couldn't die)?

Presumably, at least some souls have eternal life. But, that isn't necessarily permanent life in heaven. Nor is heaven a permanent residence. After all, once Satan was in heaven, and he was cast into hell. So, that means that maybe we could make it to heaven, but if we change (or if God gets angry), we might be pushed out of heaven and into hell.

Ok we'll try to get into that later. But before I look up information, what do you believe about souls?

 

[YoursTrue]

The Bible does not say that God brings people back from a state of Decomposition. That belief came about because of a misinterpretation of scriptures. I believe that Paul was talking about a spiritual resurrection, not a physical one.

God made the natural laws, and Decomposition is one of the natural laws. Bodies die and decompose and the soul (spirit) then passes from this world into another world. The man himself continues to live since man is not a man because of his body but because of his spirit, for it is the spirit that thinks in man, and thought is what constitutes man.

I believe that the death of man is merely his soul passing from one world into another and when the soul passes from this world into the spiritual world it takes on a new form comprised of spiritual elements. Since there is nothing physical (e.g., oxygen, water, food) in the spiritual world (heaven) a physical body cannot exist there and is of no use to anyone. I also believe that Jesus is alive in heaven in a spiritual body that is immortal, not alive in a physical body.

The following quote explains what I believe happens to our body and our spirit (soul) when we die physically. It's pretty straightforward and was written by a bible-believing Christian.

421. When the body is no longer able to perform the bodily functions in the natural world that correspond to the spirit’s thoughts and affections, which the spirit has from the spiritual world, man is said to die. This takes place when the respiration of the lungs and the beatings of the heart cease. But the man does not die; he is merely separated from the bodily part that was of use to him in the world, while the man himself continues to live. It is said that the man himself continues to live since man is not a man because of his body but because of his spirit, for it is the spirit that thinks in man, and thought with affection is what constitutes man. Evidently, then, the death of man is merely his passing from one world into another. And this is why in the Word in its internal sense “death” signifies resurrection and continuation of life. Heaven and Hell, p. 351

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was, and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Yes, the spirit returns to God when the person dies. So the question can be then, based on your answer, did God tell Adam he would die, or did He tell him his soul would live on?

 

[Wildswanderer]

It does make so much sense for me what the Bible says. Adam was told not to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil otherwise he would -- die. Die? So what is "afterlife"? Does that mean after -- life? After life? After life, then what? More life?
To use an illustration, if someone says, "Can you come here AFTER you finish your meal," does that mean I still am having my meal AFTER I finish having it? So is a person alive after life?

We don't die, only our bodies perish. Our soul just changes location.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes, the spirit returns to God when the person dies. So the question can be then, based on your answer, did God tell Adam he would die, or did He tell him his soul would live on?

God told Adam his body would die but God did not tell Adam that his spirit (soul) would not continue to live. Ecclesiastes 12:7 says that the spirit returns to God.

Genesis 3

17 To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’

“Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat food from it
all the days of your life.
18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
and you will eat the plants of the field.
19 By the sweat of your brow
you will eat your food
until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken;
for dust you are
and to dust you will return.”

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was, and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

 

[YoursTrue]

God told Adam his body would die but God did not tell Adam that his spirit (soul) would not continue to live. Ecclesiastes 12:7 says that the spirit returns to God.

Genesis 3

17 To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’

“Cursed is the ground because of you;
through painful toil you will eat food from it
all the days of your life.
18 It will produce thorns and thistles for you,
and you will eat the plants of the field.
19 By the sweat of your brow
you will eat your food
until you return to the ground,
since from it you were taken;
for dust you are
and to dust you will return.”

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was, and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

The spirit is the life that God put into Adam's body. Let's go over that a little, shall we? We agree that God told Adam he was dust, and he would return to the dust. And Adam was not told anything about his spirit, was he? Perhaps we can discuss exactly later on what the spirit is that returns to God who gave the spirit.

 

[YoursTrue]

We don't die, only our bodies perish. Our soul just changes location.

So then, as far as you are concerned, there is no thing as an "after" life, right?

 

[YoursTrue]

It seems that the OP reference to Genesis was a case of rambling, a case of confusion, or, perhaps, both.

As for an afterlife, I suspect not.

So then let me see if I understand you. When someone's life is over, you believe they do not go on living at all, right? Therefore there is no continuation of life in what some term the 'afterlife'?

 

[Trailblazer]

The spirit is the life that God put into Adam's body. Let's go over that a little, shall we? We agree that God told Adam he was dust, and he would return to the dust. And Adam was not told anything about his spirit, was he? Perhaps we can discuss exactly later on what the spirit is that returns to God who gave the spirit.

I believe that the spirit is synonymous to the soul. The soul enters the body at the time of conception and when the body dies the soul leaves the body and passes from this world to the spiritual world.

 

[Trailblazer]

So then, as far as you are concerned, there is no thing as an "after" life, right?

Afterlife is a misnomer because what is referred to as the afterlife is simply a continuation of this life in another world.

After the physical body dies the soul passes to a spiritual world and continues to live and conducts its life in a spiritual body. It is not our body that makes us a person, it is the soul

The so-called afterlife is just a continuation of the life of the soul.

“And now concerning thy question regarding the soul of man and its survival after death. Know thou of a truth that the soul, after its separation from the body, will continue to progress until it attaineth the presence of God, in a state and condition which neither the revolution of ages and centuries, nor the changes and chances of this world, can alter. It will endure as long as the Kingdom of God, His sovereignty, His dominion and power will endure. It will manifest the signs of God and His attributes, and will reveal His loving kindness and bounty.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 155-156

 

[Brian2]

There are two states - either life (living), or death (dead).
A lifeless person doesn't exist.
Hope that makes sense.

A lifeless body exists. The life from that body exists and is alive. (Matt 10:28) So the person exists in that soul that lives on after the death of the body. The JWs have the wrong teaching about "soul" and ignore many scriptures that tell of souls that exist and are alive after death. Revelations has some in heaven. (Rev 6:9-11) Jesus brings back with Him, those who have fallen asleep in Christ. (1Thess 4:14) Paul speaks of going to be with the Lord after he dies. (Phil 1:23)
At the resurrection the human comes back to life with a new body.

You cannot be dead and living at the same time. If you are dead, you do not have life, so you do not exist.
What lies on the ground is a lifeless body, but the person is gone. Where? Not in Sheol / Hades. Not in heaven. The person does not exist.

JWs have no idea of what death is. The death of the body is one thing and the second death at the judgement is another thing. As Jesus said, the soul is still alive after the death of the body.

What??? You say.
What makes the body alive... is it not the spirit?
So, the body minus the spirit is what? Death?
What's dead? Some say, it's the body, but what about you... are you dead
Are you the body? Some answer 'No'.
Are you the spirit? Some answer, 'Uh... Yes'.

The full human is the combination of body and spirit. The spirit is the life and this life actually is the thing that has consciousness in the body. The body cannot have consciousness because the body is matter. The conscious spirit in the body lives on after death as Jesus has been trying to tell you.

Wouldn't that mean you are different to man. In fact, if you are spirit, you are not man, but the Bible says this about man...
"And Jehovah God went on to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living person. " (Genesis 2:7)

Read that from any translation, and ask yourself again, what are you? (A) The body (dust). (B) The spirit (breath of life). Or (C) The living person / being (soul).

God is the Father of your spirit.
Heb 12:9Furthermore, we have all had earthly fathers who disciplined us, and we respected them. Should we not much more submit to the Father of our spirits and live?
God is the God of our spirit.
Numbers 16:22
But Moses and Aaron fell facedown and said, "O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh, when one man sins, will You be angry with the whole congregation?"
Zechariah 12:1
This is the burden of the word of the LORD concerning Israel. Thus declares the LORD, who stretches out the heavens and lays the foundation of the earth, who forms the spirit of man within him:

The spirit is more than a force. Do you think that God is the God of a force?
Do you think that God is the God of a lump of matter? (even if it a complex machine)
What is man in the teachings of the JWs? dirt and a force and the man disappears at death and has to me created again. If God created 2 of me I guess there would be 2 of me. But no, resurrection is not that, it is the uniting of the spirit with a body. The body can wear out and be upgraded or swapped over but the spirit has become the essence of that person and is what guarantees that if God made a copy of me, it would not be me.

To illustrate...

Think of the spirit as the batteries.
Think of the plastic model as the body.
If you take the batteries out of the toy that is outside the box, it will become "lifeless", like the toy that is inside the box.
However, the toy now has 'life'. It's animating. It's 'alive'.

So what are you. You are the soul - nephesh: a soul, living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, emotion.

You exist because you are alive; a living being; a life; a person...
Take away the spirit though, and what happens?
Your life ends. It is gone. You no longer are alive; a living being; a person. YOU... are dead.

As Jesus said, the soul lives after the death of the body. You ignore that and all the scriptures that show us living souls after death of the body.
All you see is Genesis 2 when it comes to knowing what the soul is.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

So then let me see if I understand you. When someone's life is over, you believe they do not go on living at all, right?

No. What I said was ...

As for an afterlife, I suspect not.

What I believe about the matter is that I don't know. What I suspect about the matter is that there is no afterlife. I'm sorry if the distinction is not clear.

 

[Wildswanderer]

So then, as far as you are concerned, there is no thing as an "after" life, right?

Technically it's just a continuation of life. We call it the afterlife because it's after our physical existence here. BTW, we will physically exist again on the new earth if we are part of the redeemed.

 

[nPeace]

A lifeless body exists. The life from that body exists and is alive. (Matt 10:28) So the person exists in that soul that lives on after the death of the body.

Tell me if I am reading you correctly. Otherwise, translate, okay?

The life (soul) is alive. Correct?
Let me repeat it, just in case it didn't register.
Life is alive.

Did I read you correctly?
Otherwise, translate please... what is life, and break down Matthew 10:28 in your own words please.

 

[Trailblazer]

At the resurrection the human comes back to life with a new body.

That's true, but according to the Bible the new body will be a spiritual body, not a physical body.

1 Corinthians 15:40-54 New Living Translation

40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies.

44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.

51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!

54 Then, when our dying bodies have been transformed into bodies that will never die,[c] this Scripture will be fulfilled: “Death is swallowed up in victory.[d]

Read full chapter

 

[Trailblazer]

we will physically exist again on the new earth if we are part of the redeemed.

Do you have any Bible verses to back that up?

 

[nPeace]

The Bible does not say that God brings people back from a state of Decomposition.

Human Decomposition
According to Dr. Arpad A. Vass, a Senior Staff Scientist at Oak Ridge National Laboratory and Adjunct Associate Professor at the University of Tennessee in Forensic Anthropology, human decomposition begins around four minutes after a person dies and follows four stages: autolysis, bloat, active decay, and skeletonization.

(John 11:22-27) 22 Yet even now I know that whatever you ask God for, God will give you.” 23 Jesus said to her: “Your brother will rise.” 24 Martha said to him: “I know he will rise in the resurrection on the last day.” 25 Jesus said to her: “I am the resurrection and the life. The one who exercises faith in me, even though he dies, will come to life; 26 and everyone who is living and exercises faith in me will never die at all. Do you believe this?” 27 She said to him: “Yes, Lord, I have believed that you are the Christ, the Son of God, the one coming into the world.”
(John 11:38-44) 38 Then Jesus, after groaning again within himself, came to the tomb. It was, in fact, a cave, and a stone was lying against it. 39 Jesus said: “Take the stone away.” Martha, the sister of the deceased, said to him: “Lord, by now he must smell, for it has been four days.” 40 Jesus said to her: “Did I not tell you that if you would believe you would see the glory of God?” 41 So they took the stone away. Then Jesus raised his eyes heavenward and said: “Father, I thank you that you have heard me. 42 True, I knew that you always hear me; but I spoke on account of the crowd standing around, so that they may believe that you sent me.” 43 When he had said these things, he cried out with a loud voice: “Lazarus, come out!” 44 The man who had been dead came out with his feet and hands bound with wrappings, and his face was wrapped with a cloth. Jesus said to them: “Free him and let him go.”

 

[Wildswanderer]

Do you have any Bible verses to back that up?

.

2 Peter 3:13
But according to his promise we are waiting for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells.

Revelation 21:1
Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more.

Isaiah 66:22
“For as the new heavens and the new earth that I make shall remain before me, says the Lord, so shall your offspring and your name remain.

Psalm 37:29
The righteous shall inherit the land and dwell upon it forever.