It suddenly all makes sense: Christ Sutras

[Araceli Cianna]

I was feeling frustrated last night, with my spiritual journey, with Christianity and with Jesus. Because I have met him in visions (or rather he met with me who was totally surprised), but the traditional Christian view of him just does not add up at all. I like the Jesus I met, but I struggle to stand fundamentalist Christian religion.

Anyway, so last night I prayed he would lead me to some article or something that would help me understand him as a being, instead of just reading others stories about him like in the four gospels and the rest of the new testament (and I had already thrown out the old testament as not being valid).

I've explored Gnosticism before, many times before, and it always left me wanting more. I read the Pistis Sophia and all of that, and it just seemed as fabricated as the gospels. I put it down last year and left it.

Today I came across the book "Christ Sutras: The Complete Sayings of Jesus from All Sources Arranged into Sermons", by Bart Marshall, and I am surprised this book is not more widely known! It's incredible!

Has anyone here read it? It is basically all the direct quotes that Jesus was recorded as saying whilst alive, from all sources, canonical and non-canonical alike, and when I read it pure like that, without all the murky doctrine and fabled stories surrounding it - a completely beautiful and wholesome and totally different picture opened up for a me. A world and a message I have not seen anywhere by any other religion.

I am mind blown! And what emerges for me is definitely a very Gnostic view of reality, pure Gnostic, and now I am realising for the first time in my life what was so special about Jesus and his message.

I am very excited to share this

 

[David1967]

Thanks for the info. I am going to find one. I have often wondered what Christianity today would be if all we had to go on were the actual words of Jesus. My guess is that it would be much better.

 

[David1967]

Have you read the book, 'Jesus and Buddha,the parallel sayings'? Very interesting comparison.

 

[rocala]

Thank you @Sheon and @David1967 . I have downloaded a copy of each.

 

[godnotgod]

.... what emerges for me is definitely a very Gnostic view of reality, pure Gnostic, and now I am realising for the first time in my life what was so special about Jesus and his message.

Can you clarify a bit what you mean by 1: "a very Gnostic view of reality", and 2: "what was so special about Jesus and his message."?

 

[Araceli Cianna]

Can you clarify a bit what you mean by 1: "a very Gnostic view of reality", and 2: "what was so special about Jesus and his message."?

Hi, sure, I can clarify.

First point, Jesus to me seems to come across with the message that the body/flesh is not good or evil, in conjunction with the idea that matter is inferior or even evil compared to spirit. He has a very dualistic outlook. This can be seen even in the new testament with statements such as "turn the other cheek", because the body was regarded with non-importance.

Secondly and the message I really loved on first reading is that Jesus ultimately preaches an 'unknowable' God, which is apophatic theology, contrasted with the usual cataphatic theology of current Christianity and other faiths. Also due to the duality of body-spirit there is a very large emphasis on asceticism and the doing of good works in order to attain salvation in heaven. This is much different to the current Christian idea that all you have to do is believe in Jesus. Jesus himself did not teach that at all.

And that leads me onto my statement that the true Jesus and his message is something special. It's an approach to divinity that I haven't seen in any other religion. It's very unique in my opinion.

Perhaps it really speaks to me because Christ Sutras reads in a way that original Christianity should have been but never became. It does not mean I necessarily agree with all Jesus' theological stances but his teachings are very relatable and rather than being a god worthy of worship he is revealed as a man who is very spiritually connected. More of a prophet or angel ('messenger') than the unkowable God he teaches.

Christ Sutras expands incredibly on Jesus' personality, his world view, and his theology directly from the source himself, and reveals the new testament gospels in a much clearer and broader light. It is not Christianity. In my opinion, Christianity perverted his original message and turned it into something it was never meant to be. Leaving the Gnostic mythology aside, the Gnostic spirituality appears much closer to Jesus' truth.

 

[Araceli Cianna]

Have you read the book, 'Jesus and Buddha,the parallel sayings'? Very interesting comparison.

No, but I will look it up

 

[godnotgod]

Hi, sure, I can clarify.

First point, Jesus to me seems to come across with the message that the body/flesh is not good or evil, in conjunction with the idea that matter is inferior or even evil compared to spirit. He has a very dualistic outlook. This can be seen even in the new testament with statements such as "turn the other cheek", because the body was regarded with non-importance.

Secondly and the message I really loved on first reading is that Jesus ultimately preaches an 'unknowable' God, which is apophatic theology, contrasted with the usual cataphatic theology of current Christianity and other faiths. Also due to the duality of body-spirit there is a very large emphasis on asceticism and the doing of good works in order to attain salvation in heaven. This is much different to the current Christian idea that all you have to do is believe in Jesus. Jesus himself did not teach that at all.

And that leads me onto my statement that the true Jesus and his message is something special. It's an approach to divinity that I haven't seen in any other religion. It's very unique in my opinion.

Perhaps it really speaks to me because Christ Sutras reads in a way that original Christianity should have been but never became. It does not mean I necessarily agree with all Jesus' theological stances but his teachings are very relatable and rather than being a god worthy of worship he is revealed as a man who is very spiritually connected. More of a prophet or angel ('messenger') than the unkowable God he teaches.

Christ Sutras expands incredibly on Jesus' personality, his world view, and his theology directly from the source himself, and reveals the new testament gospels in a much clearer and broader light. It is not Christianity. In my opinion, Christianity perverted his original message and turned it into something it was never meant to be. Leaving the Gnostic mythology aside, the Gnostic spirituality appears much closer to Jesus' truth.

Thank you.

I had understood the Gnostic experience to be one of direct, inner divine union with the Christ essence. Is this what you experience, or just what your teachings point to?

Jesus, or more preferably, Yeshua, said that the kingdom of God lay within, which I am assuming to mean within all men, and is essentially the same message of the Buddha, which is that all sentient beings have Buddha nature. I don't see two different realities the two are pointing to, but just one. So in the sense that divine union is accessible by all sentient beings, I don't see the experience as 'something special' at all, but rather quite ordinary. In fact, Zen says:

"Before Enlightenment, it is Something Special;
after Enlightenment, it is Nothing Special"

 

[Phantasman]

When one becomes troubled in Christian seeking they do one of two things. They stop (fear from mens doctrines teaching such) or they continue until they understand. Christ taught the latter.

Gospel of Thomas:
(2) Jesus said, "Let him who seeks continue seeking until he finds. When he finds, he will become troubled. When he becomes troubled, he will be astonished, and he will rule over the All."

Let your amazement continue, dear sister.