Italy's far right set to win election

[Sand Dancer]

But isn't social conservative all about the state making the rules about who you should be, how you should live, who you should love, what you should like, how you should worship (or not)?

Why on earth would anybody with an operating brain think it good to submit themselves to that? Mystifies me, I'll tell you.

Because if you already agree with those things, you're going to vote for people who also agree with those things.

 

[Estro Felino]

Italian elections were won by a woman born within a Suburbanite family, in a working class neighborhood, South Rome.
It is the emblem of the victory of the people against the lounge-loving, carefree elites, which include also Freemasons and other lodges, who look down on the populace and do not serve their interests.
Because Italians side with the people, and the people born within humble families, and not with the elites.
And the last PM was a Goldman Sachs banker called Draghi.
Well...Italians believe in melons, not in dragons.
Dragons are bad, melons are delicious, yellow and ripe.

 

[Lyndon]

So you're happy with an anti LGBT prime minister??

 

[Estro Felino]

So you're happy with an anti LGBT prime minister??

LGBT are populace, they are not elites. They are shopkeepers, factory workers, truck drivers.
So how can they side with a left that looks down on the populace (them) and worships bankers?

 

[Estro Felino]

 

[Lyndon]

LGBT are populace, they are not elites. They are shopkeepers, factory workers, truck drivers.
So how can they side with a left that looks down on the populace (them) and worships bankers?

I think you're in for an unpleasant surprise

Earlier this year she outlined her priorities in a raucous speech to Spain's far-right Vox party: "Yes to the natural family, no to the LGBT lobby, yes to sexual identity, no to gender ideology... no to Islamist violence, yes to secure borders, no to mass migration... no to big international finance... no to the bureaucrats of Brussels!"

 

[Estro Felino]

I think you're in for an unpleasant surprise

Earlier this year she outlined her priorities in a raucous speech to Spain's far-right Vox party: "Yes to the natural family, no to the LGBT lobby, yes to sexual identity, no to gender ideology... no to Islamist violence, yes to secure borders, no to mass migration... no to big international finance... no to the bureaucrats of Brussels!"

Yes. All things I approve of.
Well said, Giorgia.

 

[RestlessSoul]

I think you're in for an unpleasant surprise

Earlier this year she outlined her priorities in a raucous speech to Spain's far-right Vox party: "Yes to the natural family, no to the LGBT lobby, yes to sexual identity, no to gender ideology... no to Islamist violence, yes to secure borders, no to mass migration... no to big international finance... no to the bureaucrats of Brussels!"

I think it is very dangerous when educated, affluent liberals fail to recognise the appeal of some of that message, to people in working class communities. This is how left leaning parties in free market economies lose touch with the common man and woman in the street.

Whether concerns about the breakdown of traditional families, Islamic extremism, mass migration engineered by international elites, etc are legitimate or misguided, it pays to recognise that this message resonates with economically disadvantaged communities throughout Europe, and seemingly the USA too. It’s why, for instance, former industrial towns in South Wales and the North of England, voted overwhelmingly for Brexit - which, incidentally, I consider an act of self-harm, but what do you expect when whole regions feel abandoned and left behind by a society that appears to despise their values?

 

[Estro Felino]

I think it is very dangerous when educated, affluent liberals fail to recognise the appeal of some of that message, to people in working class communities. This is how left leaning parties in free market economies lose touch with the common man and woman in the street.

Whether concerns about the breakdown of traditional families, Islamic extremism, mass migration engineered by international elites, etc are legitimate or misguided, it pays to recognise that this message resonates with economically disadvantaged communities throughout Europe, and seemingly the USA too. It’s why, for instance, former industrial towns in South Wales and the North of England, voted overwhelmingly for Brexit - which, incidentally, I consider an act of self-harm, but what do you expect when whole regions feel abandoned and left behind by a society that appears to despise their values?

Maybe because they knew Soros was funding Remain campaigns and they have still long term memory...in 1992 Soros mercilessly attacked the £ through a big speculation that enormously damaged the British economy of the nineties.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Maybe because they knew Soros was funding Remain campaigns and they have still long term memory...in 1992 Soros mercilessly attacked the £ through a big speculation that enormously damaged the British economy of the nineties.

I remember when OPEC seriously decreased oil production over the Yom-Kippur war in Israel in the 70's.
Inflation had risen to 25% in 1975.

Unemployment surged as a result, especially when Thatcher came to power and massively hiked up interest rates, which caused a steep decline in manufacturing.

Energy .. oil .. climate-change .. rise of nationalism..
It's all very precarious.

 

[Estro Felino]

I remember when OPEC seriously decreased oil production over the Yom-Kippur war in Israel in the 70's.
Inflation had risen to 25% in 1975.

Unemployment surged as a result, especially when Thatcher came to power and massively hiked up interest rates, which caused a steep decline in manufacturing.

Energy .. oil .. climate-change .. rise of nationalism..
It's all very precarious.

I think Thatcher might have been right about the European Union, but her radical neo-liberism was wrong, in my opinion. And I say it as a staunch socialist.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I think Thatcher might have been right about the European Union, but her radical neo-liberism was wrong, in my opinion. And I say it as a staunch socialist.

Well, we still have the £

It's not worth as much as it used to be.
In the 70's, it was roughly £1 = $2.5 .. now it's about even. i.e. £1 = $1

 

[Estro Felino]

Well, we still have the £

Lucky you

 

[Rival]

Their not? At least irt marriage?

Certain groups of people should be denied the ability to marry? Because it's not guaranteed?

Rather antiquated of you.

Marriage, for anyone, is a privilege not a right. We could apply this, within Catholicism and Orthodoxy, to divorcees, for example. We apply it to near kin. We have historically banned marriage for many groups. We have banned polygynous marriages. Marriage, immigration, etc. are privileges not rights.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Marriage, for anyone, is a privilege not a right..

If you mean regards marrying somebody from another nation, and expecting it to be your right for them to join you, then I would agree.

Otherwise, marriage has nothing to do with privilege.
It is not about wealth .. it is a law to promote social cohesion.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Marriage, for anyone, is a privilege not a right. We could apply this, within Catholicism and Orthodoxy, to divorcees, for example. We apply it to near kin. We have historically banned marriage for many groups. We have banned polygynous marriages. Marriage, immigration, etc. are privileges not rights.

Let me cite my own example on immigration: I'm estranged in my own culture and would, as the primary goal of my life at the moment, like to immigrate. Since my country documents religion on IDs, I'm listed as a Muslim and couldn't change it to anything else despite being staunchly against Islamism and violent fundamentalism. This means I would be banned from entering Italy under Meloni's policies or the US under Trump (at one point, at least).

Because I know immigration is not a right, I have spent many years working on acquiring multiple skills and credentials to make myself appealing to employers abroad, from fluent language and a university degree to in-demand skills such as programming and applied mathematics.

Do you agree with Meloni that I should be prevented from immigrating to Italy or, perhaps, other parts of the EU? Should I be considered a potential threat and be banned from entry even though I have worked for years to meet the requirements of other countries' immigration laws and be a contributor to their economy in case I get accepted?

 

[muhammad_isa]

Let me cite my own example on immigration: I'm estranged in my own culture and would, as the primary goal of my life at the moment, like to immigrate. Since my country documents religion on IDs, I'm listed as a Muslim and couldn't change it to anything else despite being staunchly against Islamism and violent fundamentalism. This means I would be banned from entering Italy under Meloni's policies or the US under Trump (at one point, at least).

Because I know immigration is not a right, I have spent many years working on acquiring multiple skills and credentials to make myself appealing to employers abroad, from fluent language and a university degree to in-demand skills such as programming and applied mathematics.

Do you agree with Meloni that I should be prevented from immigrating to Italy or, perhaps, other parts of the EU? Should I be considered a potential threat and be banned from entry even though I have worked for years to meet the requirements of other countries' immigration laws and be a contributor to their economy in case I get accepted?

I don't think that is the point of stricter immigration laws.
It is about fear of being overwhelmed by 1000's of people from North Africa [and beyond], especially at a time of higher inflation, and general economic fears.

I don't agree with strict immigration per se, but it seems inevitable, unless the global financial system changes.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Whatever you think of it, these are just standard right wing social views and they're not far right.

Xenophobia is "just standard right wing social views."

Homophobia is "just standard right wing social views."

Misogyny is "just standard right wing social views."​

This is not because they are less extreme, but because we are living at a time when right wing ideology has become increasingly normalized. Rather than minimizing the danger inherent in this trend, we would do well to recognize it as a cause for increasing concern and vigilance.

 

[Debater Slayer]

I don't think that is the point of stricter immigration laws.
It is about fear of being overwhelmed by 1000's of people from North Africa[and beyond], especially at a time of higher inflation, and general economic fears.

I don't agree with strict immigration per se, but it seems inevitable, unless the global financial system changes.

What do you think stricter immigration laws in Italy would look like under this new PM? Are there so many highly skilled immigrants moving there that Italy may end up being overwhelmed by thousands of them?

 

[Debater Slayer]

Xenophobia is "just standard right wing social views."

Homophobia is "just standard right wing social views."

Misogyny is "just standard right wing social views."​

This is not because they are less extreme, but because we are living at a time when right wing ideology has become increasingly normalized. Rather than minimizing the danger inherent in this trend, we would do well to recognize it as a cause for increasing concern and vigilance.

I touched on this earlier too:

It seems to me that labeling such dangerous ideologies and policies as "just a conservative party" actually gives ammunition to those who assert that conservatism, as a whole, is a dangerous movement. I disagree with that notion because I think conservatism has much less malevolent aspects than the varieties found in the policies espoused by the likes of Marine Le Pen and now this Italian PM, but if I believed they were representative of conservatism as a whole, I would have a much starker view of the right wing in general.

If harmful beliefs that promote demonization of specific groups and curtailing of their freedoms or even their safety are "standard right-wing views," then is it really any surprise that social conservatism is becoming increasingly denounced and viewed as a threat among newer generations?