Jakarta's Governor on trial for Blasphemy against Islam?

[icehorse]

I've read a couple of articles, here's one from the BBC:

Indonesia blasphemy case: Emotional scenes as Ahok trial begins - BBC News

An important governor in Indonesia is on trial for blasphemy against... hmm not sure, the Quran? Islam?

Can anyone explain what this guy is even on trial for?

(I thought Indonesia was Islam's "tolerance" poster child?)

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

I've read a couple of articles, here's one from the BBC:

Indonesia blasphemy case: Emotional scenes as Ahok trial begins - BBC News

An important governor in Indonesia is on trial for blasphemy against... hmm not sure, the Quran? Islam?

Can anyone explain what this guy is even on trial for?

(I thought Indonesia was Islam's "tolerance" poster child?)

Okay, the long version is he's being put on trial because he pointed out that leaders in the local Muslim community were using Quran verses (I'm guessing the "Take not the Jews or the Christians as friends, nor find protectors among them" verse) to persuade Muslims to vote against him because he's Christian and someone doctored the video of him saying this to make it sound as though he was slandering the Quran. As a result somewhere in the region of an estimated 100,000 Muslims have spent the last week on the streets calling for him to be executed for mocking/twisting the Quran. And the Indonesian President appeared alongside the firebrand ******** leading this hate march so basically he's throwing an elected official to the wolves because he's not Muslim.

The short version is blasphemy laws are retarded, yet another Muslim flash-mob has the potential to get an innocent man killed and this **** has to stop.

 

[Kirran]

We still have Albania.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Welcome to the very ugliest side of human nature. And religion is, and has always been, the most incendiary fuel for that ugliness. Nothing else even comes close.

 

[MD]

Welcome to the very ugliest side of human nature. And religion is, and has always been, the most incendiary fuel for that ugliness. Nothing else even comes close.

I dunno, the Nazis and Communists did horrific things. American imperialism as well. As much as I am not a fan of Islam, I think this is more about human nature than religion per say.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I dunno, the Nazis and Communists did horrific things. American imperialism as well. As much as I am not a fan of Islam, I think this is more about human nature than religion per say.

I did not mean Islam -- I meant our propensity for belief in what we can't actually demonstrate, and even worse, our willingness to act on it as if it were unassailable fact. It never is.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I dunno, the Nazis and Communists did horrific things. American imperialism as well. As much as I am not a fan of Islam, I think this is more about human nature than religion per say.

The Nazis were Christian, and Hitler wrote throughout Mein Kamp he was Christian and believed he was doing God's bidding. And when you consider religions like the Aztecs, there is absolutely nothing else that has shed more blood. Of course race, territory/resources, nationalism, and power have also caused war and blood shed, but religion is often an extremely volatile additive, especially when it's added to the state.

 

[Terese]

Okay, the long version is he's being put on trial because he pointed out that leaders in the local Muslim community were using Quran verses (I'm guessing the "Take you not the Jews or the Christians as friends, nor find protectors among them" verse) to persuade Muslims to vote against him because he's Christian and someone doctored the video of him saying this to make it sound as though he was slandering the Quran. As a result somewhere in the region of an estimated 100,000 Muslims have spent the last week on the streets calling for him to be executed for mocking/twisting the Quran. And the Indonesian President appeared alongside the firebrand ******** leading this hate march so basically he's throwing an elected official to the wolves because he's not Muslim.

The short version is blasphemy laws are retarded, yet another Muslim flash-mob has the potential to get an innocent man killed and this **** has to stop.

Who doctored the video? Was it for a political reason? Or some rando?

 

[columbus]

The short version is blasphemy laws are retarded, yet another Muslim flash-mob has the potential to get an innocent man killed

This is not possible.
As everybody knows, Islam is the Religion of Peace.
Tom

 

[LuisDantas]

If you ask me, it is good evidence of the failure of Islam to be an actual religion.

 

[Revoltingest]

I dunno, the Nazis and Communists did horrific things. American imperialism as well. As much as I am not a fan of Islam, I think this is more about human nature than religion per say.

Americastanian imperialism was driven by the manifest destiny philosophy, which was based in Xianity.
But I agree that human nature is to blame.
Humans & innocent people are natural enemies....like Englishmen & humans....or Welshmen & humans...
....or Japanese & humans....or humans & other humans. Damn humans....they ruined Scotland!

 

[LuisDantas]

If "human nature" is sufficient justification to excuse the excesses of supposedly religious movements, then one has reason to wonder if there is a point to those movements.

 

[icehorse]

Americastanian imperialism was driven by the manifest destiny philosophy, which was based in Xianity.
But I agree that human nature is to blame.
Humans & innocent people are natural enemies....like Englishmen & humans....or Welshmen & humans...
....or Japanese & humans....or humans & other humans. Damn humans....they ruined Scotland!

Is a variation on the "since there are many facets we shouldn't attack any of them" argument?

 

[Revoltingest]

Is a variation on the "since there are many facets we shouldn't attack any of them" argument?

No, I'm in favor of attacking.
I just want to attack so many groups....even my own (heathens).

 

[fantome profane]

If you ask me, it is good evidence of the failure of Islam to be an actual religion.

Why? Because they act like certain other religions, and with similar results?

 

[Aštra’el]

The short version is blasphemy laws are retarded, yet another Muslim flash-mob has the potential to get an innocent man killed and this **** has to stop.

"Innocent"?

 

[SomeRandom]

"Innocent"?

Now now mate. I know the guy is a politician, but even that is not enough justification to have him killed.

 

[Terese]

"Innocent"?

He was wrongfully accused, so yes, innocent.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

"Innocent"?

Yes, innocent. There is absolutely no place for killing someone, or even formally charging them with a crime, because they said something that offended you. They mock your religion? It's far better for all involved if you at least learn to tolerate it and respect it. Unless explicitly calling for violence and discrimination, the slope is too slippery and too step to take with regulating speech.
Case in point: Because of this particularly strict interpretation of Sharia, a man may die over Bronze Age and Medieval blasphemy laws over something that may have been fake, because that cluster of the world is probably the only place with people who have skin thinner than Trump. You "offend their prophet," and they don't even ask you to stop, they imprison and/or kill you. Freedom of speech is pretty much a right recognized round the world, except a handful where the state has total control and where Islam is running the show. It's worth mentioning, that right is often under attack in various ways, via legislation, to censor art, ban books from libraries (something that is actually against library conduct), and fine those they find lewd, obscene, and offensive.
The only reasonable solution is to purge religion from the state, and become the vanguards preserving that right against anyone who should want to take it. The slope is just too slippery and too steep.

 

[LuisDantas]

Why?

Mainly because they are too busy insisting on being monotheistic above all. Also because they have far too much of a tribalistic core to their ethics.

Basically, there is very little indeed to Islam beyond the insistence on proclaiming the truth of Ibrahim's God as implemented in the Qur'an and the need to tell Muslims apart from Kuffar.

Because they act like certain other religions, and with similar results?

No. I guess failed beliefs tend to fall into certain patterns according to the nature of their failure.