James Dobson On Discipline (And How Children Are Like Dogs)

[painted wolf]

Respect doesn't come at the snap of a belt or whip.

wa:do

 

[dawny0826]

Respect doesn't come at the snap of a belt or whip.

wa:do

Respect should be earned. But chidren do often learn to respect through their parent's guidance, which at times includes discipline.

I resent blanket labels that ALL forms of physical discipline are abusive. I'm not insinuating that this is what you are implying, of course.

 

[Sunstone]

Dobson somewhere states that the goal is to break the will of the child, but not his spirit. I don't know what he means by that, however.

 

[Smoke]

I resent blanket labels that ALL forms of physical discipline are abusive.

What forms of physical discipline are not abusive?

Dobson somewhere states that the goal is to break the will of the child, but not his spirit. I don't know what he means by that, however.

I doubt that he does, either.

 

[painted wolf]

No not all physical discipline is abusive... however what Dobson is suggesting is in my eyes.

There are many ways to clearly and successfully discipline a child without causing them pain.

wa:do

 

[dawny0826]

Dobson somewhere states that the goal is to break the will of the child, but not his spirit. I don't know what he means by that, however.

It means disciplining your chidren without stripping them of their sense of identity, without breaking that which makes them unique.

 

[dawny0826]

What forms of physical discipline are not abusive?

I don't consider a swift pop to the behind to be abusive.

 

[Kathryn]

I don't consider a swift pop to the behind to be abusive.

I agree with you. My application was this: Let the punishment fit the crime. There are so many other more effective disciplinary actions in most instances. For instance, if a child steals something - making them confess this, return the item, or work to repay it makes more sense to me than hitting them.

Each child is different and what works for one may not work for the other. My youngest daughter responded very quickly to minimal discipline. My oldest one - well, I guess I could have beaten her to a pulp and she would have still been stubborn. I learned quickly that I had to come up with very creative ways to discipline her since a swift pop to the behind wouldn't have meant a thing to her. She would have just laughed that off.

 

[dawny0826]

I agree with you. My application was this: Let the punishment fit the crime. There are so many other more effective disciplinary actions in most instances. For instance, if a child steals something - making them confess this, return the item, or work to repay it makes more sense to me than hitting them.

Each child is different and what works for one may not work for the other. My youngest daughter responded very quickly to minimal discipline. My oldest one - well, I guess I could have beaten her to a pulp and she would have still been stubborn. I learned quickly that I had to come up with very creative ways to discipline her since a swift pop to the behind wouldn't have meant a thing to her. She would have just laughed that off.

I concur. My oldest is stubborn. My youngest will apologize if you look at her sternly.

 

[angellous_evangellous]

What forms of physical discipline are not abusive?

Running laps.

 

[JewishLeftist]

Again Christian hypocrisy shows through.

The insecurity, the violent tendencies, the desire to overpower. Yet "Jesus" said that the meek will inherit the earth! Also shows that Christians do not "value human life" but think that children are property to be bossed around.

Christianity is a religion founded upon control, authoritarianism, and negative emotions.

 

[dawny0826]

Again Christian hypocrisy shows through.

The insecurity, the violent tendencies, the desire to overpower. Yet "Jesus" said that the meek will inherit the earth! Also shows that Christians do not "value human life" but think that children are property to be bossed around.

Christianity is a religion founded upon control, authoritarianism, and negative emotions.

Unless you know me as an individual and have interacted with my children, you can't possibly critique my parenting style with conviction or that of anyone else...

Within the same holy book that you'll find Jesus, you'll find a verse referring to the "rod". If we spare the rod, we spoil the child. Discipline and guidance are important aspects of parenting. The "rod" can come in many forms and doesn't have to be physical.

 

[Kathryn]

Again Christian hypocrisy shows through.

The insecurity, the violent tendencies, the desire to overpower. Yet "Jesus" said that the meek will inherit the earth! Also shows that Christians do not "value human life" but think that children are property to be bossed around.

Christianity is a religion founded upon control, authoritarianism, and negative emotions.

Oh, brother. James Dobson doesn't speak for all Christians, any more than Menachem Begin spoke for all Jews.

As a practicing Christian, I wrote James Dobson off a long time ago. Some of what he says is true, but his beliefs and applications in general are far too simplistic and rigid to fit my beliefs.

Christians "do not value life but think that children are property to be bossed around." Give me a break. I'm sure that there are some goober "Christians" out there - hey, I know a few of those! But I also know non Christians who are totally whacked when it comes to child-rearing practices.

Stupidity comes in all forms - even in the form of leftist Jews.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I think James Dobson needs to watch a few episodes of Cesar Milan as "The Dog Whisperer." Then he'll get an idea of how to train a dog to happily submit without brute force. Milan has the same philosophy as Dobson as the importance of establishing who is the Alpha-Male, or pack leader, in the household. But Milan's methods are far from the means that Dobson suggests for those purposes. Beating a dog with a belt is something that Cesar Milan would never do.




I part ways with Dobson with his philosophy toward raising children. Our teenager is "at that age" where he thinks he knows it all, but he helps around the house, and we think he speaks respectfully to us. Out of all four of our kids, our second oldest probably is the only who would be considered "docile," and his actions probably preferred in a Dobson household with his quiet nature.





The attitude Dobson has toward infants has little in common with many new mothers (I breastfed exclusively, and I never thought my babies were "manipulating" me in any way).




Not all Christian parents feel that Dobson is correct, however. There is the attachment-parenting community that has mostly been lead by Dr. William Sears (a Christian), whose series of books based on his experience as a pediatrician and a father of eight kids has sort of been unofficially dubbed as the Bible of baby-care and child-rearing. One of my favorite books by him was always, "The Discpline Book" where he discusses at length age-appropriate measures for discipline that always ensures that respect goes both ways.




Peace,
Mystic

Interesting that my views have not changed at all since my response to the OP. I highly value what Dr. Sears - again, a Christian - taught through attachment parenting, and our children (who all four are preteens and teens) have not become deranged or out-of-control from our own parenting methods.

Now, they're all a little wacky, but that's certainly OK. Steve and I appreciate Pythonesque humour.

 

[Father Heathen]

Within the same holy book that you'll find Jesus, you'll find a verse referring to the "rod". If we spare the rod, we spoil the child.

The bible also talks about selling your own daughter into slavery. Going to take yours to the auction block?

So we're left with two choices; either the bible is garbage to be tossed out the window, or selling children as slaves is perfectly acceptable, and only disgusting subhumans pick the latter option.

 

[Storm]

So we're left with two choices; either the bible is garbage to be tossed out the window, or selling children as slaves is perfectly acceptable, and only disgusting subhumans pick the latter option.

Now, now, let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. The fact that Levitican law is immoral by modern standards does not reduce the Bible to worthlessness.

 

[dawny0826]

The bible also talks about selling your own daughter into slavery. Going to take yours to the auction block?

So we're left with two choices; either the bible is garbage to be tossed out the window, or selling children as slaves is perfectly acceptable, and only disgusting subhumans pick the latter option.

Yeah, yeah, the bible is bogus. You're coming in loud and clear.

Religion aside, I'm responsible for raising my children. I don't particularly enjoy discipline but it's part of the process and I don't think anyone has the right to judge my parenting skills, without knowing me.

 

[Smoke]

I don't consider a swift pop to the behind to be abusive.

I don't either, really. I don't care for it, though.

 

[painted wolf]

For me, a bottom pop would be a punishment of last resort. For running out into the road or something truly heinous.

wa:do

 

[Father Heathen]

Now, now, let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. The fact that Levitican law is immoral by modern standards does not reduce the Bible to worthlessness.

It's from Exodus, and sure, it might a few good things in it (which are hardly original or exclusive), but they don't redeem the whole. And if you're trying to cite the bible as a source of authority then you have to accept the whole thing. You can't just cherry pick what's convenient.

I mean come on, selling your own daughter into slavery? It amazes me that even in our modern, civilized world there are some people who actually consider the primitive, bronze age barbarism of the bible as virtuous and god ordained.