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January 6th, Just What Was It?

Jose Fly

Fisker of men
The prosecution had an obligation to provide the complete footage to the defense (which they failed to do). The footage was also requested in writing by the defense, but the defense did not receive the footage. By your logic, cherry-picked inculpatory evidence of Chansley doesn't count as evidence either.
Not according to the prosecution.


"Prosecutors responded that all but 10 seconds of Capitol surveillance footage, including the clips played by Carlson, had been released to Pezzola, Chansley and all defendants in September 2021. The clips shown by Carlson “are not exculpatory of Pezzola or any other participant in the siege of the Capitol,” prosecutors Jason McCullough and Conor Mulroe wrote."

And it was actually Carlson who selectively edited the video to misrepresent what occurred.

"At media outlets’ request, prosecutors also made public footage that connects Chansley more directly to rioting than the brief clip aired on Carlson’s program. In two videos released Monday, and played in court in 2021, Chansley can be seen surging through a door moments after Pezzola is seen using a stolen police shield to smash a Capitol window to access the building. And an earlier video shows Chansley among a powerful mob that overran a group of Capitol Police officers outside the building."

Of course Chansley's lawyers dispute these claims, which means a judge will have to decide.

"Prosecutors said Chansley then “faced off with members of the U.S. Capitol Police for more than thirty minutes in front of the Senate Chamber doors while elected officials, including the Vice President of the United States, were fleeing from the chamber.

"Carlson showed clips of Chansley seemingly being escorted by police officers at times. Prosecutors acknowledged that “a sole officer, who was trying to de-escalate the situation, was with Chansley as he made his way to the Senate floor after initially breaching the Chamber, as the televised footage reflects.” The government said the footage aired by Carlson “fails to show that Chansley subsequently refused to be escorted out by this lone officer and instead left the Capitol only after additional officers arrived and forcibly escorted him out.”

"Chansley was arrested Jan. 9, 2021. He repeatedly said he acted peacefully. But the judge in his case pointed to videos, photos, social media posts and police interviews that he said clearly contradicted Chansley’s claims, saying they in fact showed Chansley helping lead the breach with a group that first broke through the Capitol’s Senate wing entrance door.

“Defendant’s perception of his actions on January 6th as peaceful, benign and well-intentioned shows a detachment from reality,” U.S. District Judge Royce C. Lamberth wrote in March 2021 during a pretrial hearing. Chansley “blatantly lied” when he claimed that a police officer waved him into the building, the judge said, citing security footage and other video filed by prosecutors. “To the contrary, he quite literally spearheaded [the breach],” Lamberth wrote.
Chansley entered the Capitol with a six-foot pole topped with a spear tip. He wore horns, fur and face paint. In the Senate chamber, he sat in Pence’s chair and left a note declaring “It’s only a matter of time justice is coming!”
"
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
you agree that being in front of a podium is not a violent act.
Yes. Was somebody charged with standing in front of a podium?
You would pursue charges against the police officers accompanying Chansley?!?
The police who appeared to be abetting the insurrectionists should be investigated. Likewise with the congressional Republicans who appeared to be doing the same the day before.
IMO, this throw-everyone-in-jail mentality is dangerous.
Just those convicted of crimes.
How is revealing exculpatory evidence not the opposite of a cover-up?
The cover-up begins with Republicans calling the insurrection tourism and political speech. Then come the Senate Republicans voting against a bipartisan investigation. The come the House Republicans trying to prevent a House investigation, and then when they couldn't, to subvert it.
Inculpatory evidence aginst Chansley is cherry-picked.
Curated. That's what investigators and prosecutors do. They separate the significant evidence from the rest.
the footage Tucker showed was not seen during Chansley's trial. The prosecution had an obligation to provide the complete footage to the defense (which they failed to do). The footage was also requested in writing by the defense, but the defense did not receive the footage
If you're correct, there should be a successful appeal coming.
 

We Never Know

No Slack
So... you agree that being in front of a podium is not a violent act.

You would pursue charges against the police officers accompanying Chansley?!? IMO, this throw-everyone-in-jail mentality is dangerous.

How is revealing exculpatory evidence not the opposite of a cover-up?

As far as I am aware conspiracy is not something Chansley was charged with. If you have additional evidence that Chansley was also part of a conspiracy, then you should share it.

It's entirely possible that you don't understand what exculpatory evidence is even when it is carefully explained to you. Here is a link for you to go study: Cornell Law School: Exculpatory Evidence.

If you have evidence that the video footage is a lie, then please share it. Otherwise, don't claim that you only call people liars when you can confirm they are lying.

Chansley Entering and Remaining in a Restricted Building was only one of the crimes he was charged with. Also, what police do to corral people does matter.

Your rebuttal consists of what-about-Trumpism, Chansley-was-an-idiot ad hominem, and it-doesn't-matter-what police-did. It's like you didn't read what I wrote at all.

Go back and read about exculpatory evidence.

Inculpatory evidence aginst Chansley is cherry-picked. However, the footage Tucker showed was not seen during Chansley's trial. The prosecution had an obligation to provide the complete footage to the defense (which they failed to do). The footage was also requested in writing by the defense, but the defense did not receive the footage. By your logic, cherry-picked inculpatory evidence of Chansley doesn't count as evidence either.
"provide complete footage"


You have video surveillance in your house. A person enters illegally, washes your dishes, does your laundry then robs your house blind.
At their trial why would anyone need to see them wash your dishes and do your laundry? It doesn't changed the fact they where there illegally and commited a crime.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
So... you agree that being in front of a podium is not a violent act.
Irrelevant. He was charged and convicted of the crimes he was seen doing on video.
You would pursue charges against the police officers accompanying Chansley?!? IMO, this throw-everyone-in-jail mentality is dangerous.
The officers were hired to perform security, and that included escorting criminal trespassers until they exited the Capitol.
How is revealing exculpatory evidence not the opposite of a cover-up?
There was none given the charges were of him being IN the Capitol which caused the interuption of congress.
As far as I am aware conspiracy is not something Chansley was charged with. If you have additional evidence that Chansley was also part of a conspiracy, then you should share it.
He is lucky. There were many others who did act on a conspiracy against the USA, and they are facing many more years.
It's entirely possible that you don't understand what exculpatory evidence is even when it is carefully explained to you. Here is a link for you to go study: Cornell Law School: Exculpatory Evidence.
I understand what it is. Your posts indicate you having problems understanding that the people who broke into the Capitol were committing crimes.
If you have evidence that the video footage is a lie, then please share it. Otherwise, don't claim that you only call people liars when you can confirm they are lying.
Tucker Carlson is lying. Those who repeat what he is lying about are liars as well, as they should know better than to trust Carlson.
Chansley Entering and Remaining in a Restricted Building was only one of the crimes he was charged with. Also, what police do to corral people does matter.
Noit to the crimes the criminals were observed doing. The police behaved very well considering how violent many of the rioters were.
Your rebuttal consists of what-about-Trumpism, Chansley-was-an-idiot ad hominem, and it-doesn't-matter-what police-did. It's like you didn't read what I wrote at all.
Nope, just citing the known facts. You are obviously sympathetic to Trump and the rioters.
Go back and read about exculpatory evidence.

Inculpatory evidence aginst Chansley is cherry-picked. However, the footage Tucker showed was not seen during Chansley's trial. The prosecution had an obligation to provide the complete footage to the defense (which they failed to do). The footage was also requested in writing by the defense, but the defense did not receive the footage. By your logic, cherry-picked inculpatory evidence of Chansley doesn't count as evidence either.
The guy obstructed an official proceeding by being IN the Capitol. How does video of him being IN the Capitol help his defense?

You write a lot of words about exculpatory evidence but not a single word about how the video does so.
 
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ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
I've had a number of dealings with violent black men in my lifetime, from being robbed at my job to my 17 year old daughter being gang raped by 3 of them.

If BLM REALLY wanted to do something about the murder rate of black men then they would demand justice in their own community instead of harracing people out for dinner!
It's telling that you didn't answer my question. Do you believe these criminal behaviours are somehow genetic?
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
Because men misbehave.
That's not an answer as to why you think there is a disproportionately high crime rate among black Americans.

Do you think misbehaviour is genetic?

Facts in a world where truth is uncommon.
The only fact you have stated so far is that black Americans commit (or, at least, are charged with) a disproportionate amount of violent crimes (you actually said "murders" but I'm being charitable and assume you meant to say "violent crimes" which is more accurate).

I'm asking you what you think the cause of this is.
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
That's not an answer as to why you think there is a disproportionately high crime rate among black Americans.

Do you think misbehaviour is genetic?


The only fact you have stated so far is that black Americans commit (or, at least, are charged with) a disproportionate amount of violent crimes (you actually said "murders" but I'm being charitable and assume you meant to say "violent crimes" which is more accurate).

I'm asking you what you think the cause of this is.
General cultural decline in this age.

The cause of a black male killing another black male is they decided to do it.
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
FEE3F881-C0DF-4869-A04F-62158E38E138.jpeg
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
General cultural decline in this age.
That's pretty vague, and also doesn't explain why this discrepancy has been fairly consistent throughout modern American history and limited to black communities.

So why do you think it's mostly affecting black communities?

The cause of a black male killing another black male is they decided to do it.
You can't explain general trends by pretending it's all about individualism. There's reasons things show differences between demographics. What are they?
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Do we know the video wasn't edited?
Do we know the purpose of each scene of his being led around?
Do we have any testimony from the cops or the perp?

That's why I don't like to jump in on either side of a political debate. It is easy for either side to post video or commentary to support a politically expedient narrative.

As long as the narrative supports your feelings it's all good. :thumbsup:
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
That's pretty vague, and also doesn't explain why this discrepancy has been fairly consistent throughout modern American history and limited to black communities.

So why do you think it's mostly affecting black communities?


You can't explain general trends by pretending it's all about individualism. There's reasons things show differences between demographics. What are they?
Statistics concerning the black community were more positive in the 50's and 60's. So no, they haven't been "consistent".

The "trend" would be a young black male born today is much more likely to be born into a single parent home and in a more violent culture. Single parent homes have basically doubled in the black community from the 60's.

Statistics demonstrate that murders are almost always committed by someone within the same race. As a percentage of the race its much higher in the black community.
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
Statistics concerning the black community were more positive in the 50's and 60's. So no, they haven't been "consistent".
"More positive" doesn't mean that they weren't still disproportionately targeted.

Any source for the crime stats in the 50s and 60s?

The "trend" would be a young black male born today is much more likely to be born into a single parent home and in a more violent culture. Single parent homes have basically doubled in the black community from the 60's.
Cool. So, why do you think black people, specifically, are more likely to be born into those circumstances? Fatherless-ness isn't hereditary.


Statistics demonstrate that murders are almost always committed by someone within the same race. As a percentage of the race its much higher in the black community.
The key question is: why?
 
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