Jehovah witnesses and their approach and Quran

[Link]

JWs are closest to Islam from any Christian sect/religion in my view and I applaud them for their sincere study of the bible, though, I think they are better off abandoning the bible and doing the same approach with Quran and Sunnah, I feel they can solve the world problems and make us come to a sincere interpretation of Quran and Sunnah by their approach.

There is some disagreements I have with their interpretation including:

(1) Michael and Jesus being interchangeable is based on conjecture and misuse of how language works in this regard (their proof)

(2) Not noticing contradictions in Bible with itself - for example, I said to one of them while we were dialoguing, do you believe it's possible Jesus returns and then becomes evil (not saying it will happen, but possible), they said no, I said, in the same way I don't believe Talut/Saul and others like Lot can deviate and become evil after being chosen by God and anointed kings of God are pre-chosen before coming to this world in the same way you believe this about Jesus.

(3) The spiritual world and spiritual contact with dead saints/Prophets is cut off including with Jesus (who is not dead, but you get my point).

(4) The holy spirit, there is always an instance of it, and Elijah was alive for a reason, to transition it to Mohammad (s) but if they don't believe in Mohammad (s), they should believe in Elijah (a) being the hidden guide of this time according to the Gospels.

But over all, I feel they bring about treasures from the Bible and particularly the Gospels, I feel their approach if applied with Quran would do the Muslim community wonders.

 

[Spirit of Light]

JWs are closest to Islam from any Christian sect/religion in my view and I applaud them for their sincere study of the bible, though, I think they are better off abandoning the bible and doing the same approach with Quran and Sunnah, I feel they can solve the world problems and make us come to a sincere interpretation of Quran and Sunnah by their approach.

There is some disagreements I have with their interpretation including:

(1) Michael and Jesus being interchangeable is based on conjecture and misuse of how language works in this regard (their proof)

(2) Not noticing contradictions in Bible with itself - for example, I said to one of them while we were dialoguing, do you believe it's possible Jesus returns and then becomes evil (not saying it will happen, but possible), they said no, I said, in the same way I don't believe Talut/Saul and others like Lot can deviate and become evil after being chosen by God and anointed kings of God are pre-chosen before coming to this world in the same way you believe this about Jesus.

(3) The spiritual world and spiritual contact with dead saints/Prophets is cut off including with Jesus (who is not dead, but you get my point).

(4) The holy spirit, there is always an instance of it, and Elijah was alive for a reason, to transition it to Mohammad (s) but if they don't believe in Mohammad (s), they should believe in Elijah (a) being the hidden guide of this time according to the Gospels.

But over all, I feel they bring about treasures from the Bible and particularly the Gospels, I feel their approach if applied with Quran would do the Muslim community wonders.

I do agree that JW are a good path in christianity but even it would be good if more people did find truth in islam, i can not ask them to convert since they already have a good understanding of their own practice.

 

[Link]

Islam is a mess currently in how the community is and how we study/approach religion, maybe they better off staying with their own religion too on that basis. My point was, their method brings about a lot of treasures from the Bible. I think we should take similar approach with Quran (not copy them in everything they do, but notice their sincere way of interpreting Bible through Bible).

 

[nPeace]

JWs are closest to Islam from any Christian sect/religion in my view and I applaud them for their sincere study of the bible, though, I think they are better off abandoning the bible and doing the same approach with Quran and Sunnah, I feel they can solve the world problems and make us come to a sincere interpretation of Quran and Sunnah by their approach.

There is some disagreements I have with their interpretation including:

(1) Michael and Jesus being interchangeable is based on conjecture and misuse of how language works in this regard (their proof)

(2) Not noticing contradictions in Bible with itself - for example, I said to one of them while we were dialoguing, do you believe it's possible Jesus returns and then becomes evil (not saying it will happen, but possible), they said no, I said, in the same way I don't believe Talut/Saul and others like Lot can deviate and become evil after being chosen by God and anointed kings of God are pre-chosen before coming to this world in the same way you believe this about Jesus.

(3) The spiritual world and spiritual contact with dead saints/Prophets is cut off including with Jesus (who is not dead, but you get my point).

(4) The holy spirit, there is always an instance of it, and Elijah was alive for a reason, to transition it to Mohammad (s) but if they don't believe in Mohammad (s), they should believe in Elijah (a) being the hidden guide of this time according to the Gospels.

But over all, I feel they bring about treasures from the Bible and particularly the Gospels, I feel their approach if applied with Quran would do the Muslim community wonders.

Thanks for sharing.
I'm trying to understand this...
I think they are better off abandoning the bible and doing the same approach with Quran and Sunnah, I feel they can solve the world problems and make us come to a sincere interpretation of Quran and Sunnah by their approach.
Could you please elaborate a bit more on it.

 

[Link]

Yeah, I will. Thanks for asking.... soon inshallah.

 

[Starlight]

I think you have to respect that Jehovas witnesses has a different religion than you. They believe strongly their belief is the truth

 

[1213]

JWs are closest to Islam from any Christian sect/religion in my view and I applaud them for their sincere study of the bible, though, I think they are better off abandoning the bible and doing the same approach with Quran and Sunnah, ...

I don’t see that reasonable, because Quran says people should believe Jesus.

…The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah… …believe in Allah and His messengers…
Surat An-Nisā' 4:171
Surah An-Nisa - 171

 

[Link]

I think you have to respect that Jehovas witnesses has a different religion than you. They believe strongly their belief is the truth

In my view we are the same religion, just different end points in guidance from God is believed by us.

 

[John1.12]

JWs are closest to Islam from any Christian sect/religion in my view and I applaud them for their sincere study of the bible, though, I think they are better off abandoning the bible and doing the same approach with Quran and Sunnah, I feel they can solve the world problems and make us come to a sincere interpretation of Quran and Sunnah by their approach.

There is some disagreements I have with their interpretation including:

(1) Michael and Jesus being interchangeable is based on conjecture and misuse of how language works in this regard (their proof)

(2) Not noticing contradictions in Bible with itself - for example, I said to one of them while we were dialoguing, do you believe it's possible Jesus returns and then becomes evil (not saying it will happen, but possible), they said no, I said, in the same way I don't believe Talut/Saul and others like Lot can deviate and become evil after being chosen by God and anointed kings of God are pre-chosen before coming to this world in the same way you believe this about Jesus.

(3) The spiritual world and spiritual contact with dead saints/Prophets is cut off including with Jesus (who is not dead, but you get my point).

(4) The holy spirit, there is always an instance of it, and Elijah was alive for a reason, to transition it to Mohammad (s) but if they don't believe in Mohammad (s), they should believe in Elijah (a) being the hidden guide of this time according to the Gospels.

But over all, I feel they bring about treasures from the Bible and particularly the Gospels, I feel their approach if applied with Quran would do the Muslim community wonders.

From my perspective Jehovah’s witnesses and Islam is similar in that they both pervert Jesus . They both have similar ideas on 'religion ' namely 'works righteousness. Which leads to hell .

 

[Link]

They both have similar ideas on 'religion ' namely 'works righteousness. Which leads to hell .

You might be right about most Muslims but I believe through the intercession of Ahlulbayt (a) and faith in them ALONG with submission to God, repentance to God, and righteous works, I can redeem myself. I don't believe I can just make it by my own actions nor am I without need of saving by God's chosen ones nor am I arrogant to think I don't need their prayers nor do I think I can walk with my own strength and defeat Iblis and his forces without help of the instances of the holy spirit and their guidance through out the journey.

 

[Link]

I wrote the following in a book I was trying to publish (and it still might be)

Chapter 3 – The disparagement of the differences of clergy attributed to Imam Ali


There is an important sermon as far as this paradox goes, found in Nahjul Balagha. Again, our concern is not the authenticity of the chain or sermon, but giving words if they are words of guidance, a chance to guide and provide insights.

The sermon we will be looking at in this chapter is as follows



When a problem is put before anyone of them he passes judgement on it from his imagination. When exactly the same problem is placed before another of them he passes an opposite verdict. Then these judges go to the chief who had appointed them and he confirms all the verdicts, although their Allah is One (and the same), their Prophet is one (and the same), their Book (the Qur’an) is one (and the same)!

Is it that Allah ordered them to differ and they obeyed Him? Or He prohibited them from it but they disobeyed Him? Or (is it that) Allah sent an incomplete Faith and sought their help to complete it? Or they are His partners in the affairs, so that it is their share of duty to pronounce and He has to agree? Or is it that Allah the Glorified sent a perfect faith but the Prophet fell short of conveying it and handing it over (to the people)? The fact is that Allah the Glorified says:

We have not neglected anything in the Book (Qur’an) . . . (6:38),

and in it is a ‘clarification of everything’ And He says that one part of the Qur’an verifies another part and that there is no divergence in it as He says:

.And if it had been from any other than Allah, they would surely have found in it much discrepancy. (4:82)

Certainly the outside of the Qur’an is wonderful and its inside is deep (in meaning). Its wonders will never disappear, its amazements will never pass away and its darkness (plural form) cannot be cleared except through itself.

This sermon shows the differences arose and Imam Ali comments on them. First condemnation is passing a judgement not on knowledge but imagination. The Quran also forbids attributing God what we do not know. Another person placed with another, they come with an opposite verdict. This means they can’t all be correct. Then the chief that appointed them confirms all their verdicts. This is exactly how Taqlid is done today. They differ but it’s accepted that we can follow any of them. Obviously the chief appointing them didn’t want to say both judgments are true, rather, he is saying which ever one you follow it doesn’t matter, for they are “attempting” to follow God and his Messenger.

Then Imam Ali begins with some rhetorical questions. God didn’t order them to differ rather we see in Quran, unity upon Quran and Sunnah is the advice, and not to differ. The notion that God wants us to differ and accepts the differences, is a notion we hold today. But the Quran has in fact commanded the opposite and said without understanding (Fiqh) our hearts will be divided even if people may think we are united.

The rope of God is meant to be a source of unity, but when it becomes a source of conflict and division, it’s obviously not guiding. So that poses the next question.

Or is it that God sent an incomplete faith? Certainly, God has sent a guidance and way to unite on guidance, so if we aren’t following that guidance, it’s due to rebellion and insincerity on our part.

The Imam shows then a more sinister intention in all this. He asks, that if they are in fact partners with God in the affair, and this goes to a verse in the 42nd chapter of Quran. The leader and guide Ali is showing that people who follow such leaders in fact, are associating with God heedlessly.

The Imam continues and then advices on the role of the Sunnah, he says or is it God sent a perfect religion, but the Prophet didn’t convey it and fell short of manifesting it?

He then refutes all these rhetorical questions and shows in fact, the Quran has an amazing quality of guiding humans through all their differences and it’s implied with the last reference to the Prophet, that the Sunnah compliments it and provides insight to it.

The Captain and Navigator of the ship of Salvation, Imam Ali, explains, that different parts of Quran explain different parts.

The last line is the most significant phrase for the purposes of the paradox. Its darkness which is in plural form, mean all the type of darkness which is a hint to the verse 3:7 and what is meant by ambiguity from it is to be cleared through itself.

And the Quran clarifies itself, but through the help of Ahlulbayt (as). The Sunnah of the Messenger was complimenting the Quran as it was dynamically built.

And here while we should provide hadiths to clarify Quran, we have to prove at the end Quranic signs and insights by Quran insights, since hadiths can always be denied.

But as anyone can talk a bunch of nonsense about Quran any right interpretation must be supported by hadiths as well. When hadiths are shown there is weight to the words and explanation, and it becomes easier to see it in Quran.

Without hadiths to support, there is no reason to give weight to the words. We can see this in the notion, did the Prophet fall short of conveying. Similar rhetorical question, did Ahlulbayt (as) leave any aspect of the religion aside and not protected?

 

[Link]

The above shows to me, that Quran is to be referred to itself with help and backing in proofs of ahadith. I believe Jehova witnesses are very good at researching Bible by the Bible and making it relevant to our times as well as coming to correct creeds according to it.

This is what we need in Islam.

I believe we can unite with the type of proofs they bring about the bible with respect to Quran. If Muslims can approach Quran like JWs do with the Bible, I believe we can unite and come to the truth (Muslims can I mean).

 

[nPeace]

The above shows to me, that Quran is to be referred to itself with help and backing in proofs of ahadith. I believe Jehova witnesses are very good at researching Bible by the Bible and making it relevant to our times as well as coming to correct creeds according to it.

This is what we need in Islam.

I believe we can unite with the type of proofs they bring about the bible with respect to Quran. If Muslims can approach Quran like JWs do with the Bible, I believe we can unite and come to the truth (Muslims can I mean).

I think I understand now what you are trying to say... hopefully.
There are reasons why JWs are able to use the Bible in the way they do, to come to the correct understanding.
First and foremost, is that the Bible is God's word of truth. In that case, to unlock it's pages, requires God's permission.
To get God's permission, one has to gain God's approval.
God chooses the ones he will use to represent him.

This is what we see throughout the Bible.
In such a case then Link, although it may not be what most want to hear, any other book, or claims of being God's people, would be meaningless.

That's not to say God does not care about the millions who use other books, or have another way of worship. However, God pleads with people to leave those forms of worship and join his servants - his people.

That's the pattern we see with God. He chose the nation of Israel, and did you notice, he didn't tell them to join other peoples with other forms of worship. Rather, he told them to separate from them.
He accepted those who were willing to leave their former worship, and join his people.
For example, Rahab and her entire family, Ruth and others. They joined Israel, and left their worship, in order to worship the true God, and follow his truths.

This pattern has not changed. God requires the same today. So he has explained with clarity how to identify his people - the ones he chose.
Consider John 13:35, and Romans 10:13-15.

Have you noticed that JWs honor God's name? That's important, according to scripture.
(Psalm 9:10) Those knowing your name will trust in you; You will never abandon those seeking you, O Jehovah. . .
(Psalm 91:14) God said: “Because he has affection for me, I will rescue him. I will protect him because he knows my name.
(Proverbs 18:10) The name of Jehovah is a strong tower. Into it the righteous one runs and receives protection.
(Jeremiah 16:21) “So I will make them know, At this time I will make them know my power and my might, And they will have to know that my name is Jehovah.”
(Psalm 83:18) May people know that you, whose name is Jehovah, You alone are the Most High over all the earth.

Do you find Muslims demonstrate that God's name is important?

 

[firedragon]

I don’t see that reasonable, because Quran says people should believe Jesus.

…The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah… …believe in Allah and His messengers…
Surat An-Nisā' 4:171
Surah An-Nisa - 171

I think that's irrelevant because that statement is to abandon the Bible, not Jesus.

Muslims are also asked to believe in all the prophets. When I say all, I mean all. Some, we have no clue where they were, when they were there, what they did, zilch. So that does not mean we have to go hunting for remnants of any book remaining from their teachings and follow it.

Hope you understand.

 

[Deeje]

From my perspective Jehovah’s witnesses and Islam is similar in that they both pervert Jesus .

Nobody perverts Jesus like Christendom does. Its the only Abrahamic religion that teaches that Jesus is God.
If Abraham did not believe that God was a triune being, and Jesus never once said that he was God, where do you suppose that idea came from? Not the Bible I assure you.....(1 John 4:12)

They both have similar ideas on 'religion ' namely 'works righteousness.

James 2:18-26....
"...someone will say: “You have faith, and I have works. Show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.. . . .do you care to know, O empty man, that faith without works is useless?. . . .You see that a man is to be declared righteous by works and not by faith alone. . . . .Indeed, just as the body without spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.”

Who told you that you don't need works? Its the works that demonstrate your faith.

Which leads to hell .

There is no such place as Christendom's hell.....it was borrowed from paganism to scare people into submission. Since there is no immortal soul, and God has no need to torture anyone forever, a "hell" of fiery torment is completely unnecessary. There is no "heaven or hell" as opposite destinations in the Bible......there is only life or death.

 

[John1.12]

You might be right about most Muslims but I believe through the intercession of Ahlulbayt (a) and faith in them ALONG with submission to God, repentance to God, and righteous works, I can redeem myself. I don't believe I can just make it by my own actions nor am I without need of saving by God's chosen ones nor am I arrogant to think I don't need their prayers nor do I think I can walk with my own strength and defeat Iblis and his forces without help of the instances of the holy spirit and their guidance through out the journey.

Yes ,that's the essence of most religions . Which i believe leads people away from God . Ironically .

 

[John1.12]

Nobody perverts Jesus like Christendom does. Its the only Abrahamic religion that teaches that Jesus is God.
If Abraham did not believe that God was a triune being, and Jesus never once said that he was God, where do you suppose that idea came from? Not the Bible I assure you.....(1 John 4:12)


James 2:18-26....
"...someone will say: “You have faith, and I have works. Show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.. . . .do you care to know, O empty man, that faith without works is useless?. . . .You see that a man is to be declared righteous by works and not by faith alone. . . . .Indeed, just as the body without spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.”

Who told you that you don't need works? Its the works that demonstrate your faith.


There is no such place as Christendom's hell.....it was borrowed from paganism to scare people into submission. Since there is no immortal soul, and God has no need to torture anyone forever, a "hell" of fiery torment is completely unnecessary. There is no "heaven or hell" as opposite destinations in the Bible......there is only life or death.

Whos James written to ?

 

[Link]

Yes ,that's the essence of most religions . Which i believe leads people away from God . Ironically .

How does it lead away from God?

 

[Link]

I think I understand now what you are trying to say... hopefully.
There are reasons why JWs are able to use the Bible in the way they do, to come to the correct understanding.
First and foremost, is that the Bible is God's word of truth. In that case, to unlock it's pages, requires God's permission.
To get God's permission, one has to gain God's approval.
God chooses the ones he will use to represent him.

I think I agree that Muslims have to gain God's approval and pleasure and fear him if they are to unlock the Quran "and none shall touch save those purifying"

 

[1213]

I think that's irrelevant because that statement is to abandon the Bible, not Jesus....

How can one reject Bible but not Jesus, when the teachings of Jesus are in the Bible?