Jehovah's Witnesses and the meaning of words

[savagewind]

English is not my native language but I would consider it disgusting if they made people start asking existential questions only to fill them up with JW speak (which, I suppose, is exactly what they do).

I don't understand whether it is disgusting for you that

(A) they wake people up to existential questions
(B) this world is about calling lies the truth?

Do you think it is better for people not to be woken up?

Of course not! I do not know how you heard me say that. It is good for me that they woke me up. I wonder that what I think are sleeping people can wake anyone up, but it is my opinion that they do. If being woken up by them is a good thing (I think it is) and if I am awake and if it is God's will that I am, then they have done good for me and God's will respecting me.

 

[Grandliseur]

It has been about nine years now that I heard, "soon six billion hearts will stop beating", and I am wondering
why the word soon has a different meaning than what it is for the Jehovah's Witnesses.

THEY will say that to Jehovah God nine years is almost no time at all, but the elder of Jehovah's Witnesses did not say, "Jehovah says". but declared it himself in the Name of Jehovah.

So, according to Jehovah's Witnesses, what is the new meaning of soon?

God knows how to humble everyone, and not even one Christian shall come away without being humbled.

The WT denomination has seen and come to feel that it is not smart to issue dates, unless they are the sweet ones that may be eaten. The year 1914 has come and gone into shame, following this and others, the 1975 date came and they have worked hard to forget that ignominy.

So, when issuing dates, try to be careful to phrase it correctly. I personally hope that some things defining the beginning of the end may begin in a few months. but until when the various events shall begin, I confess, "I know squat." I think that many Witnesses are beginning to feel as I do; though, I am not with their church.

 

[blü 2]

It is not I which says everyone must listen, but it is they who say everyone must listen their way or die. Did you not know that?

No, I didn't.

I'll die at some stage.

They will too.

 

[savagewind]

No, I didn't.

I'll die at some stage.

They will too.

Yes, but it is about forever dead.

 

[blü 2]

Yes, but it is about forever dead.

Forever dead, is what I meant.

I have trouble imagining the motives of a being who wants to accumulate billions, and in due course trillions &c of people who once were alive, and maintain them in some way or another without end ─ for decillions of decillions of decillions of meaningless years, and that's just for starters.

Being dead sounds like a pretty good option to me.

But if that's not how it looks to you, then good luck!

 

[savagewind]

Forever dead, is what I meant.

I have trouble imagining the motives of a being who wants to accumulate billions, and in due course trillions &c of people who once were alive, and maintain them in some way or another without end ─ for decillions of decillions of decillions of meaningless years, and that's just for starters.

Being dead sounds like a pretty good option to me.

But if that's not how it looks to you, then good luck!

I think that any life is not meaningless and that to live forever (which is something I am not hoping for but will accept it with grace, if it is to be offered) would not seem like it was endless because time is something which is man-made. Do you ever get tired of eating? Unfortunately for my idea of a diet, I don't. Days do not bore me. It is sad that for some people too many days look to be boring to them.

 

[blü 2]

I think that any life is not meaningless and that to live forever (which is something I am not hoping for but will accept it with grace, if it is to be offered) would not seem like it was endless because time is something which is man-made.

So you think of it as a frozen moment, a bliss in which nothing will ever change again? But if it's timeless, then you can't think, or even be aware of experiencing the bliss, let alone be grateful for it ─ those things require change, process, in your brain state, and change requires time, no?

So on the face of it, that's not an improvement, is it?

Days do not bore me. It is sad that for some people too many days look to be boring to them.

Days don't bore me either. But a decillion years, a decillion of decillions of years, whether of stasis or of change ─ that looks pretty pointless to me. I'm happier to have ceased to exist ─ not, frankly that I see any option anyway.

But you have your view, and I wish you all luck with it.

 

[savagewind]

So you think of it as a frozen moment, a bliss in which nothing will ever change again? But if it's timeless, then you can't think, or even be aware of experiencing the bliss, let alone be grateful for it ─ those things require change, process, in your brain state, and change requires time, no?

I mean they won't count time there. It won't be something to worry about.

So on the face of it, that's not an improvement, is it?

LOL You have made me laugh.

Days don't bore me either. But a decillion years, a decillion of decillions of years, whether of stasis or of change ─ that looks pretty pointless to me. I'm happier to have ceased to exist ─ not, frankly that I see any option anyway.

But you have your view, and I wish you all luck with it.

What I am saying is there will be no consciousness of "decillions of decillions" of years. One day over and over again. Just ONE. No counting. OK?

 

[savagewind]

Will some people run out of things to do? That is likely. Then what? Then they will die a peaceful death. They will go away quietly like an animal does. Psalm 37:10 And yet a little, and the wicked is not, And thou hast considered his place, and it is not.

You should probably know that wicked does not mean sin necessarily. It just means not right.

 

[blü 2]

No counting. OK?

No counting?

You really don't know me, do you.

 

[The Holy Bottom Burp]

I think that any life is not meaningless and that to live forever (which is something I am not hoping for but will accept it with grace, if it is to be offered) would not seem like it was endless because time is something which is man-made. Do you ever get tired of eating? Unfortunately for my idea of a diet, I don't. Days do not bore me. It is sad that for some people too many days look to be boring to them.

I take it you mean measurement of time is man made? Time is real however we measure it correct? I agree that it is sad that some people find life boring, I find life so intrinsically engaging. I remain as curious and interested about life, about reality and about other minds, as I was when I was a child. I would accept life forever if it was offered, as long as "life forever" included physical well being (living forever as a brain in a jar doesn't appeal). Maybe that is the benefit of being a bit slow, it makes me intensely curious about what things mean and how things work, so I never get bored!

Days don't bore me either. But a decillion years, a decillion of decillions of years, whether of stasis or of change ─ that looks pretty pointless to me. I'm happier to have ceased to exist ─ not, frankly that I see any option anyway.

But you have your view, and I wish you all luck with it.

I'm a bit surprised to hear you say that blü 2, life is meaningless, life is "pointless" but it doesn't stop me enjoying it! Just give me more of that sweet meaningless candy! I feel short changed with the life span I can expect as a human, if I live to be 100 years old people will say I enjoyed a long life. A stinking 100 years? Woefully short, and let's face it the longer you live the more chance there is of your body and mind failing. I think a weak failing body is the only thing that might make me tired of life, just because it becomes an effort to do the simplest tasks. Other than that, should somebody come up with an eternal youth pill I'll be first in the queue!

 

[savagewind]

No counting?

You really don't know me, do you.

I don't know how I could! I count things too. Stairs, seconds, steps, miles, buttons.....

Of course, my point is that days will blend together so much so that your everlasting life will be just one day.
One day is not too many. Right?

 

[blü 2]

I don't know how I could! I count things too. Stairs, seconds, steps, miles, buttons.....

Of course, my point is that days will blend together so much so that your everlasting life will be just one day.
One day is not too many. Right?

Fresh lobster mornay with Beluga caviar for dinner again? That's three times this century for gosh sakes!

*I'm bored. I'm bored. I'm bo-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-red.*

 

[blü 2]

I'm a bit surprised to hear you say that blü 2, life is meaningless, life is "pointless".

Ahm, that's not what I said. I said that living endlessly is pointless. Life's about going somewhere, traversing the distance, the map in your head, and at the end of Act V taking your leave.

Science may offer my grandkids immortality. In that case I'll let them sort it out.

A stinking 100 years? Woefully short, and let's face it the longer you live the more chance there is of your body and mind failing.

I recall a SF story years ago that asserted then-current insurance stats suggested living 400 years was the median before a fatal accident gotcha. So immorality is living in cotton wool. (Then there's those other SF stories where you copy your brain / personality into a computer as you're about to leave, and become, now I think of it, the ghost in the machine.)

I think a weak failing body is the only thing that might make me tired of life, just because it becomes an effort to do the simplest tasks.

I've seen it happen, and I'll see it happen again.

Other than that, should somebody come up with an eternal youth pill I'll be first in the queue!

Do me a favor and check with me about then ─ see if I've changed my mind.

 

[savagewind]

Ahm, that's not what I said. I said that living endlessly is pointless. Life's about going somewhere, traversing the distance, the map in your head, and at the end of Act V taking your leave.

That is profound and I agree. I think scientists are correct in assuming the physical universe is not forever.
I believe God is able to cause humanity to exist until the end of it. God exists without the universe. When the universe
gets old and dies (as it has no soul imo), that will be the beginning of the next story. I think it is a great honor to be invited to the next story and the best way to be ready for it is to live a long, long time with the will to be ready for it.

 

[blü 2]

That is profound and I agree. I think scientists are correct in assuming the physical universe is not forever.
I believe God is able to cause humanity to exist until the end of it. God exists without the universe. When the universe
gets old and dies (as it has no soul imo), that will be the beginning of the next story. I think it is a great honor to be invited to the next story and the best way to be ready for it is to live a long, long time with the will to be ready for it.

Then good luck with that! Or should I say, happy hypertrails ...

 

[savagewind]

Then good luck with that! Or should I say, happy hypertrails ...

I shall rate that "friendly", but I also think it is sarcasm which isn't so friendly. Is it?

And, thank you, I think.

 

[The Holy Bottom Burp]

Ahm, that's not what I said. I said that living endlessly is pointless. Life's about going somewhere, traversing the distance, the map in your head, and at the end of Act V taking your leave.

I can't really see much difference in a pointless finite life and a pointless infinite life, you just invent a new "distance" a new "map" to traverse and go after it.

.
Science may offer my grandkids immortality. In that case I'll let them sort it out.

If your grandkids get the option of immortality I really want to take this life back to the vendor!

.
I recall a SF story years ago that asserted then-current insurance stats suggested living 400 years was the median before a fatal accident gotcha. So immorality is living in cotton wool. (Then there's those other SF stories where you copy your brain / personality into a computer as you're about to leave, and become, now I think of it, the ghost in the machine.).

Oh yes, that is the other thing about immortality, I need to be impervious to the everyday causes of death! It will need to be an almighty immortality pill!

.
I've seen it happen, and I'll see it happen again.
Do me a favor and check with me about then ─ see if I've changed my mind.

Oh you, you want your cake and to eat it sir. When me and @savagewind are popping our immortality pills maybe we'll log on to see how much you are willing to pay in order to join our club!

 

[savagewind]

When me and @savagewind are popping our immortality pills maybe we'll log on to see how much you are willing to pay in order to join our club!

Surely immortality can't be had by mankind's own design. It won't be caused by something physical to eat.

 

[The Holy Bottom Burp]

Surely immortality can't be had by mankind's own design. It won't be caused by something physical to eat.

Interesting question, but I've no idea how "death" would be defeated from our point of view, I'm guessing at it. I think it would amount to changing the chemistry in our bodies. It would (I think) involve ingesting something or getting injected with something. It would be definitely "mankind's own design" though, I cant think of a medical procedure revealed by a deity!