Jehovah's Witnesses Knocked on My Door

[Brickjectivity]

I'm not condeming an incorrect translation. I grew up a Jehovah's Witness and JW's don't translate ancient texts, they don't learn Greek or Aramaic or whatever language to interpret the originals. They use the King James bible, they just change take things out of context and change some things to fit their interpretations.

I was wondering why you had 'The Urantia Book' in your religion plaque for the site.

When the bible says "Lord" they change it to "Jehovah" because they think they are the only ones who use the correct name for God.

Thank you for explaining that this is part of your background.

Probably they run because some people really mean it. I've little love lost for JWs based on my experience growing up with them, but I have a scar on my left arm from a dog released on me when I was 9 when he saw us coming up the driveway.

Thank you for telling us this about your background. My background is charismatic, but then I spent a little under ten years in a group not unlike the JW's after leaving the charismatics (and the SBC, too). There are multiple 'Bible-based' non-trinitarian Christian groups. I think that all are related by experience if not by agreement. I'm slightly surprised to encounter a lot of JW's and ex-JW's online.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I believe this part is.

Matthew 24:35
Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away.


New American Standard Bible
But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.

I'm not dedicated enough to play middle man for JWs, but they do have a rebuttal you Can read here: Will Our Earth Ever Be Destroyed? — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY
They believe it's in reference to human society, like when it said the earth was one language prior to Babel. Human structures, human works, human civilization, but not the Earth.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Thank you for telling us this about your background. My background is charismatic, but then I spent a little under ten years in a group not unlike the JW's after leaving the charismatics (and the SBC, too). There are multiple 'Bible-based' non-trinitarian Christian groups. I think that all are related by experience if not by agreement. I'm slightly surprised to encounter a lot of JW's and ex-JW's online.

Watchtower used to discourage online participation back in the day but have lightened up considerably. Ironically before RF I was a regular member of the many religious chatrooms of AOL. Lots of JWs used to hang out there.

 

[Super Universe]

When a scripture is added to the text of Jehovah's Witnesses it is for a cross-reference.
What it means in that instance is that the one quoted there has the idea because of the scripture.

Yes, everyone can cross check the references themselves but many people are lazy and won't do that, they will take it as it's written. Which is what the JW's are hoping for.

The idea "because scripture says this" is fine if it's clear that the interpretation is a Jehovah's Witness interpretation. Giving a biblical reference is intended to give their belief's some credibility.

 

[Kemosloby]

I'm not dedicated enough to play middle man for JWs, but they do have a rebuttal you Can read here: Will Our Earth Ever Be Destroyed? — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY
They believe it's in reference to human society, like when it said the earth was one language prior to Babel. Human structures, human works, human civilization, but not the Earth.

I don't care that much, whatever will be will be.

 

[savagewind]

Yes, everyone can cross check the references themselves but many people are lazy and won't do that, they will take it as it's written. Which is what the JW's are hoping for.

The idea "because scripture says this" is fine if it's clear that the interpretation is a Jehovah's Witness interpretation. Giving a biblical reference is intended to give their belief's some credibility.

I think that is exactly true. Or......you have hit the nail on the head.

 

[Super Universe]

Yes, but the stories that were arbitrarily compiled into modern Bibles were done so at the exclusion of many others that were held as sacred by early Christians. We also have different versions of the Bible containing additional stories. And before that, stories were passed around verbally. we do not have a single original text and do not have absolute confirmation about any of the authors of the written stories. How many people in the Middle East do you think were named John or Mark or Mathew in the first century?

I agree completely. There are many books of the bible and Apocrypha and even some newer books like the Book of Mormon but the books of the Apocrypha and Book of Mormon and other books stand on their own. You can read them and decide for yourself. Mormon's are not changing the New Testament and trying to sneak it by you.

What if I changed some of the Torah and went about preaching Judaism and referencing my changed Torah?

Or, what if I changed the US Constitution and began teaching my changed version to your children and didn't tell them that I made some changes?

 

[Super Universe]

First, a disclaimer of sorts, there are several places in the NWT that I strongly object to. Also, I am not with the WT, at all.

Next, translation from language to language is not a straight word for word type of activity. Some languages, at least one, cannot be translated directly into English. It would make little sense. When translating that language, it is absolutely necessary to insert many times the subject of the English sentence, even judging whether the subject is plural or singular - because in that other language, some things are said as if it is just understood who is speaking; thus, there is no need in that language to say it. (Very different)

So when you see the following: (just picked anything I could find)

NWT: Hebrews 1:10 . . .And: “You at [the] beginning, O Lord, laid the foundations of the earth itself, and the heavens are [the] works of your hands.
ASV: Hebrews 1:10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning didst lay the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the works of thy hands:​

You can see that the brackets of the NWT gives you a very accurate way of determining where the translator had to use his discretion to insert needed things into the English for it to not be a too rough, hard to read thing. The ASV and many other translations do not tell us where this has been done. Nonetheless, it was done.

I don't have a problem with a translation mistake or a differing translation but the JW's don't translate, they purposely change the words to fit their beliefs. I had to go to JW Kingdom Hall for 12 years and never once did I hear anything about any JW translating the Greek or Aramaic bible. They don't do that.

JW's, in their magazines, take the bible verses, change them, and then write up a modern story and input the changed bible verses into the story to make it sound like their interpretation of the bible has relevance for today's problems.

 

[Grandliseur]

I don't have a problem with a translation mistake or a differing translation but the JW's don't translate, they purposely change the words to fit their beliefs. I had to go to JW Kingdom Hall for 12 years and never once did I hear anything about any JW translating the Greek or Aramaic bible. They don't do that.

JW's, in their magazines, take the bible verses, change them, and then write up a modern story and input the changed bible verses into the story to make it sound like their interpretation of the bible has relevance for today's problems.

I have no idea how their translation was achieved.

I have problems with some parts of the NT, their OT, I do like and is nicely worded, easy to read. Besides, while not having anything to do with translation, their search function is the best I have yet found. So, when trying to find a scripture, their app is really good, the best I have found so far.

As to their church, each to his own. I do not belong to any church any longer, and never shall again - if things go the way they have been the last long time.

 

[Super Universe]

I was wondering why you had 'The Urantia Book' in your religion plaque for the site.

Thank you for explaining that this is part of your background.

Thank you for telling us this about your background. My background is charismatic, but then I spent a little under ten years in a group not unlike the JW's after leaving the charismatics (and the SBC, too). There are multiple 'Bible-based' non-trinitarian Christian groups. I think that all are related by experience if not by agreement. I'm slightly surprised to encounter a lot of JW's and ex-JW's online.

Why do I have the Urantia Book as my religion? Because I am a Urantia Book believer. I'm not a Jehovah's Witness. My father forced me to go to the Kingdom Hall for 12 years as a child and I grew up hating the religion.

As I got older I did a lot of religious research over the years and studied science as well. I think I wanted to use science to prove to my father that his religious belief's were wrong but then something happened and I suddenly knew that God really does exist, it's just that humans are too full of themselves to accept the truth so they tried to invent a belief that God is all about them that puts the earth at the center of the universe.

 

[robocop (actually)]

Just wanted to point out that, regardless of if their verses are correct, Jehovah Witnesses study scripture more than almost anybody.

 

[siti]

What am I missing?

You're missing the key ingredient in discussions like these - the fact that irrational fundamentalist interpretation of the evangelistic proselytizing variety and functional illiteracy in the target audience are bound to lead to confusion. The OP has missed the point that the scriptural references he is reading are a mixture of quotes and citations in which some sentences simply cite (not quote) the scriptural reference to support the point whilst others are direct quotations. Its really not that hard but if he can't handle it I suggest he might just cite Isaiah 29:12 and tell them to give the scroll (oops, I mean the Awake! magazine) to someone else!

 

[Enoch07]

I had a visit from a Jehovah's Witness who left me an "Awake" magazine. I told him I would not give him .25 for it and he said I did not have to.

There are twenty biblical quotes in the magazine. Five of the quotes are word for word correct from the bible, seven of the quotes are slightly changed, and eight of the quotes are greatly changed to give the Jehovah's Witness interpretation.

Some of the quotes have the biblical reference in parenthesis as if to admit that this is not the word for word version and that it is their interpretation. Some of the quotes do not have the parenthesis and are still very changed.

When you change a biblical quote on purpose and provide a bible reference for that changed quote, that is called lying.

If you want to post a biblical quote and THEN give your Jehovah's Witness interpretation of it, that is fine, but purposely changing quotes to make the bible say what you WANT it to mean is dishonest.

Last time I had Jehovah's witnesses come to my door they woke me from my slumber. Sleepily I answered the door. They seemed very nervous and wanted to get out of there, versus they usually stand their and drone on all day. It wasn't till after the lady left did I realize I was wearing boxers with no button on the fly, and Captain Winky had come out to say hello. Never saw her again, nice lady though.

 

[Deeje]

"To survive, we need clean water, food, clothing, and shelter from the weather." 1 Timothy 6:7, 8. The bible says "...with food, clothing, we shall be content.

1 Timothy 6:7-8....."To be sure, there is great gain in godly devotion+along with contentment. 7 For we have brought nothing into the world, and neither can we carry anything out. 8 So, having food and clothing, we will be content with these things."

You do understand the point of introducing a Bible principal to underscore a statement, don't you?

Here is a link to the article about how to survive a disaster....victims of a natural disaster would not be expecting luxuries, but necessities like food water and shelter would be useful.

When Disaster Strikes—Steps That Can Save Lives — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

"I am comforted by my belief that God will soon bring complete justice to the earth and will right all wrongs. In the meantime, I cherish each day of life and do what I reasonably can to do preserve it." Revelation 21:4, 5. This is JW interpretation and not close to being word for word.

Revelation 21:4-5 is the Bible's description of the new world to come under the rulership of Jesus and his "bride". It will be a time when all the things that presently plague mankind will be eliminated.....no more suffering, pain or death.
It is the principle upon which the statement is based. You misunderstood......or perhaps you just don't get it? It wasn't a quotation, it was a citation.

Even when the nation in which they live goes to war, Christians should remain neutral, "no part of the world." John 15:19, only the "no part of the world" is from John 15:19.

Again, you seem to miss the point. 1 John 5:19 says...."We know that we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one." This is the reason why Jesus said that his disciples were to be "No part of the world." It is ruled from behind the scenes by God's adversary.

"My kindgom is no part of this world. If my Kingdom were part of this world, my attendants would have fought that I should not be handd over to the Jews. But as it is, my Kingdom is not from this source." John 18:36

Exactly. The Kingdom in which Jesus will rule is not from this world, nor is it part of this world. It is from heaven, from God.

"because the earth will certainly be filled with the knowledge of Jehovah as the waters cover the sea." Isaiah 11:9. This quote is close but they substituted the word Jehovah in place of the word Lord.

That would be because the divine name (YHWH) was there in the original text. The real substitution was made by taking God's name out of the Bible and substituting the title "LORD" instead. That would be tantamount to reading a novel by a well known writer and substituting "Author" for his personal name. What human author would tolerate such a thing?

Look up Strongs reference for the word "LORD" in that verse. The divine name has been removed almost 7,000 times in the Hebrew scriptures. The NWT put it back where it belongs.

Genesis 1:1 (NASB)

"Physical training is beneficial for a little," 1 Timothy 4:8. "But the scriptures also caution you to "live with soundness of mind." Titus 2:12, the initial sentence makes it sound as if intense exercise is against the bible, which is not what the writer was trying to say. The correct interpretation of this complete biblical quote is that exercise is fine but God is forever.

Are you really that bad at reading and comprehension? Paul is saying that physical training IS beneficial, but not the sort that would keep us from our primary activity. Paul often made reference to the games that were popular at the time. Much training was needed to compete at what was Olympic level in those days. So he said.....

"By giving this counsel to the brothers, you will be a fine minister of Christ Jesus, one nourished with the words of the faith and of the fine teaching that you have followed closely. 7 But reject irreverent false stories, like those told by old women. On the other hand, train yourself with godly devotion as your aim. 8 For physical training is beneficial for a little, but godly devotion is beneficial for all things, as it holds promise of the life now and the life that is to come. 9 That statement is trustworthy and deserves full acceptance. 10 This is why we are working hard and exerting ourselves, because we have rested our hope on a living God, who is a Savior of all sorts of men, especially of faithful ones."

He was promoting a much more important work.
You seem to have little knowledge of scripture and poor comprehension of what little you know.

Before you consider engaging in a certain activity, get to know the risks involved. Ask yourself, "Does this activity amount to little more than a gamble with death or serious injury?" Proverbs 14:15. This posted quote is JW interpretation of the bible but given a biblical reference.

This is again citing a principle to back up a statement.

Here is the article that it was quoted from....it was talking about thrill seeking.

Is Thrill-Seeking Worth the Risk? — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

I think you've embarrassed yourself enough.

For goodness sake, if you are going to rubbish someone, at least get your facts straight. Regardless of how you feel about Jehovah's Witnesses, they are fulfilling the command given by Jesus to preach the kingdom message in all the world. (Matthew 24:14; Matthew 28:19-20) Whether people listen or not, they can never say that we didn't try to warn them about what is coming. (Matthew 10:11-15)

Look at the state of the world people.....it means something.

 

[Katzpur]

For me, my treatment of JW's, live, in the flesh, is pretty much a mood thing. Sometimes, I'll entertain their primitive thinking other times I'll practically turn the Rotties on them.

* screams... "Release the hounds!" *
(It's always a bit surprising how fast the old folks can run back down my long driveway.)

More often than not, I'll just toy with them until they realize they are wasting their time. Oddly, it doesn't normally take too long.

In regards to the OP, one cannot expect too much from a door to door salesperson religion. Most of the time I start laughing simply reading the cover, then my bizarre sense of humor takes over and well... things go downhill rapidly from there.

So is that your modus operandi when it comes to the Mormon missionaries, too?

 

[YmirGF]

So is that your modus operandi when it comes to the Mormon missionaries, too?

Naw. Mormons are more fun. Honest. They are much more relaxed and easy going. More accessible. JW's seem to be so deadly serious most of the time. Plus, Mormons are usually clean cut good looking kids so it's hard not to be affected by their enthusiasm. They also laugh at my jokes so they can't be all bad.

 

[oldbadger]

The biblical quotes I will provide will be from the King James. I don't know what bible the JW's are using.

Good luck with that.

 

[oldbadger]

I grew up a Jehovah's Witness..........................

Aahhhhh...... !
Got it.

 

[Altfish]

I had a JW come into my house once and tried to tell my wife that each day of creation in Genesis was actually a billion years long. I told the JW to get out of my house and tell the rest of her fellows to stay out.

It has been 8 years and I haven't seen one since. If you know the Bible and what it says people can't deceive you about it.

I have friends who are Mormons who used to visit but one day 6 of them came over and I showed them how the Book of Mormon and what they believe directly contradicts what Jesus taught in the Bible. I showed them the verses and proved to them that they were wrong. They haven't been back since though we still are friends with one of them.

Oh, forgot to mention that at least one of them became a Baptist because she couldn't cope with the differences in what Mormons believe and what the NT actually teaches.

I've never had a atheist knock on my door preaching

 

[Altfish]

Hello, what does NWT stand for?

New World Translation (I think)