Jehovah's Witnesses only: Questions regarding the resurrection in Jehovahs Witness theology

[Clear]

Hi;

I have a couple of very specific questions regarding Jehovahs Witness Theology and how it relates to the final resurrection of people.


If I understand Jehovahs Witness theology regarding resurrection correctly, there is nothing left of the original person who died, say a thousand years ago (other than perhaps a bit of bone of a long decayed body). The prior personality, the prior memories, the prior moral attitudes, the prior education etc. are all completely annihilated and non-existent (Other than that perhaps God "remembers" these things.)

Is this correct or do I misunderstand the Jehovahs Witness Theology on this specific point?

Thanks in advance for any clarification on this question.

Clear

 

[LightofTruth]

Sounds like the correct Bible teaching IMO

 

[Bro Rando]

Yes, you have the gest of it. However, these things can be found in the Bible. When a person dies, they go back to the place they came from. "In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.” (Genesis 3:19)

It was not meant for mankind to die but liveforever here on the earth in a Paradise. "And I have hope toward God, which hope these men also look forward to, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous." (Acts 24:15)

As the Storm Approaches, Maintain Your Focus on Jesus!

Take Care.
BroRando

 

[LightofTruth]

Yes, you have the gest of it. However, these things can be found in the Bible. When a person dies, they go back to the place they came from. "In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.” (Genesis 3:19)

It was not meant for mankind to die but liveforever here on the earth in a Paradise. "And I have hope toward God, which hope these men also look forward to, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous." (Acts 24:15)

As the Storm Approaches, Maintain Your Focus on Jesus!

Take Care.
BroRando

I suppose if God had intended man to live forever here on earth He wouldn't have said "Thou shall not..."

 

[Deeje]

Hi;

I have a couple of very specific questions regarding Jehovahs Witness Theology and how it relates to the final resurrection of people.


If I understand Jehovahs Witness theology regarding resurrection correctly, there is nothing left of the original person who died, say a thousand years ago (other than perhaps a bit of bone of a long decayed body). The prior personality, the prior memories, the prior moral attitudes, the prior education etc. are all completely annihilated and non-existent (Other than that perhaps God "remembers" these things.)

Is this correct or do I misunderstand the Jehovahs Witness Theology on this specific point?

Thanks in advance for any clarification on this question.

That is what God told Adam as my brother has mentioned. There was no "heaven or hell" scenario revealed to Adam, nor to any of Jehovah's Jewish worshippers...death meant death, not a continuation of life somewhere else. If there was a place of punishment after death then God was remiss in not informing Adam of the possibility. He simply told him that he would return to the dust out of which he was made. Since Adam had witnessed the death of animals, he knew what death meant.

Is there some reason why you put limitations on God? How many stars are there in the Universe? There are billions of galaxies all containing many billions of stars, and yet....Psalm 147:4-5 says of God....

"He counts the number of the stars;
He calls all of them by name.

5 Our Lord is great and is mighty in power;
His understanding is beyond measure."

If God can remember every star by name, then why would you doubt his ability to remember every human when he restores them to life on the planet he created for them? There does not have to be a single molecule of the original person for God to "recreate" them.

“In the re-creation, when the Son of man sits down upon his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also yourselves sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.” (Matthew 19:28)

The re-creation will be a time of “regeneration,” a time “when all is made new,” as other Bible translations express it. (The Emphasised Bible, by Rotherham; The Jerusalem Bible) By means of this re-creation, it will be possible for humans to enjoy again the perfection that mankind had at the start. (Revelation 21:5) God always finishes what he starts. (Isaiah 55:11)

 

[Deeje]

I suppose if God had intended man to live forever here on earth He wouldn't have said "Thou shall not..."

He did intend man to live forever but it was conditional....the humans had to obey their Creator. Death was only a penalty for disobedience.

 

[nPeace]

That is what God told Adam as my brother has mentioned. There was no "heaven or hell" scenario revealed to Adam, nor to any of Jehovah's Jewish worshippers...death meant death, not a continuation of life somewhere else. If there was a place of punishment after death then God was remiss in not informing Adam of the possibility. He simply told him that he would return to the dust out of which he was made. Since Adam had witnessed the death of animals, he knew what death meant.

Is there some reason why you put limitations on God? How many stars are there in the Universe? There are billions of galaxies all containing many billions of stars, and yet....Psalm 147:4-5 says of God....

"He counts the number of the stars;
He calls all of them by name.

5 Our Lord is great and is mighty in power;
His understanding is beyond measure."

If God can remember every star by name, then why would you doubt his ability to remember every human when he restores them to life on the planet he created for them? There does not have to be a single molecule of the original person for God to "recreate" them.

“In the re-creation, when the Son of man sits down upon his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also yourselves sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.” (Matthew 19:28)

The re-creation will be a time of “regeneration,” a time “when all is made new,” as other Bible translations express it. (The Emphasised Bible, by Rotherham; The Jerusalem Bible) By means of this re-creation, it will be possible for humans to enjoy again the perfection that mankind had at the start. (Revelation 21:5) God always finishes what he starts. (Isaiah 55:11)

... and how many hairs are on a human head?
(Matthew 10:29, 30) 29 Two sparrows sell for a coin of small value, do they not? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground without your Father’s knowledge. 30 But even the hairs of your head are all numbered.

I can't even remember the names of all the brothers I have met.
You know, only today I was thinking of how amazing our brain is, to store data, for future use, and I thought to myself, "How could such a system evolve from anything... There must be a far greater "system" in existence, that could bring about such a system as our brain.

Imagine if the elders had to remember every challenge mentioned by every brother. Can't wait for a perfect brain.

 

[Brian2]

Yes, you have the gest of it. However, these things can be found in the Bible. When a person dies, they go back to the place they came from. "In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.” (Genesis 3:19)

It was not meant for mankind to die but liveforever here on the earth in a Paradise. "And I have hope toward God, which hope these men also look forward to, that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous." (Acts 24:15)

As the Storm Approaches, Maintain Your Focus on Jesus!

Take Care.
BroRando

If a human does not have a spirit in them does that mean that the body is our soul?
The Bible does call a dead body, a dead soul.

 

[Deeje]

If a human does not have a spirit in them does that mean that the body is our soul?
The Bible does call a dead body, a dead soul.

The soul is the whole person. Our consciousness and personality (everything that makes who we are) is a product of the brain. When brain death occurs, the soul dies. (Ezekiel 18:4)

 

[LightofTruth]

He did intend man to live forever but it was conditional....the humans had to obey their Creator. Death was only a penalty for disobedience.

And there can be no disobedience without law.

 

[Deeje]

And there can be no disobedience without law.

There was a law....”don’t touch that tree or you will die.”

 

[Clear]

Clear said in the O.P "If I understand Jehovahs Witness theology regarding resurrection correctly, there is nothing left of the original person who died, say a thousand years ago (other than perhaps a bit of bone of a long decayed body). The prior personality, the prior memories, the prior moral attitudes, the prior education etc. are all completely annihilated and non-existent (Other than that perhaps God "remembers" these things.)"


Thank you so much to everyone who gave me specific answers to my very specific question. I appreciate the insights.

Can I make sure I understand correctly?
If I correctly understand the replies I've received, they confirm the concept that NOTHING remains of the person who died in this case (other than whatever physical elements have not yet decomposed).

@Hockeycowboy and @tigger2 . I also respect your level of understanding of Jehovahs' Witness theology.
Do you also agree that the answers (which seem to be very consistent) are the correct understanding of Jehovahs' Witness Theology?
That is, is there any disagreement among individuals who are familiar with this specific theology that this understanding is incorrect?

If this understanding on this specific Jehovahs Witness doctrine is correct then, it brings to mind a second question.

If this specific person who died is among those who will be resurrected and live again. Is it correct Jehovahs Witness theology that God will re-create a duplicate of the original person who died with all prior memories, prior knowledge, prior morals, prior attitudes, etc. Other than the change of body (presumably from mortal to immortal), will that person be the same as before or will the person be a different person with different personal characteristics?

Let me know if I need to clarify this very specific question I am asking.

Clear
ειφυφιω

 

[Deeje]

If this understanding on this specific Jehovahs Witness doctrine is correct then, it brings to mind a second question.

If this specific person who died is among those who will be resurrected and live again. Is it correct Jehovahs Witness theology that God will re-create a duplicate of the original person who died with all prior memories, prior knowledge, prior morals, prior attitudes, etc. Other than the change of body (presumably from mortal to immortal), will that person be the same as before or will the person be a different person with different personal characteristics?

Let me know if I need to clarify this very specific question I am asking.

As mentioned, what the “new earth” means to us (2 Peter 3:13) is a genuine re-creation of what existed before in the original paradise.

The Hebrew Scriptures teach that “Sheol” is the grave (according to the Tanah) Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10 says that those in Sheol are not capable of any thought or activity, so as Jesus said of his friend Lazarus, they are ‘sleeping’ as far as God is concerned. (John 11:11-14) Jesus raised the dead to show us what a resurrection is....a return to life and family.

There is no teaching of an immortal soul in OT scripture. That means that Jesus did not promote such a belief.

If God can create a new body and reinstall all the memories and personality traits that identify that individual to themselves and others, it is not a “duplicate” like a clone. Even identical twins are not the same in personality. This is the same person in a new body. That is what resurrection is.....it is bringing back the same person to their earthly mortal life to reconnect with loved ones.

God made us mortals for a reason. Why do you think he did that?

 

[Clear]

Clear Asked : "If this specific person who died is among those who will be resurrected and live again. Is it correct Jehovahs Witness theology that God will re-create a duplicate of the original person who died with all prior memories, prior knowledge, prior morals, prior attitudes, etc. Other than the change of body (presumably from mortal to immortal), will that person be the same as before or will the person be a different person with different personal characteristics?"


Deeje replied : "If God can create a new body and reinstall all the memories and personality traits that identify that individual to themselves and others, it is not a “duplicate” like a clone. Even identical twins are not the same in personality. This is the same person in a new body. That is what resurrection is.....it is bringing back the same person to their earthly mortal life to reconnect with loved ones." (post #13)


Hi Deeje

If the original person is annihilated and gone (i.e. nothing remains) then the resurrected person cannot BE the original.
The original was annihilated and no longer exists.
Good may re-create the original person to be exactly the same as the original, but they are not the original person.



1) The resurrected person either IS or IS NOT a duplicate of the person who died 1,000 years ago.

However, You say that the resurrected second person created by God is NOT a duplicate of the first that died.

Since the definition of “duplicate” is :

1) something that is “exactly like something else”

2) one of two or more identical things

3) to make or be an exact copy of

If you maintain that the second person is NOT a duplicate of the original person, then the second person is NOT exactly like the first; they are NOT identical or they are NOT an exact copy of the first one.
If the second person is NOT a duplicate or identical to the person who died, then other than a difference in body, how is the second, resurrected person different from the original in Jehovahs Witness Theology?


Are there any other opinions from any other Jehovahs Witnesses? Do you believe the second person who is resurrected is a duplicate of the original, or are they different?

Clear
τωτζτζω

 

[Brian2]

The soul is the whole person. Our consciousness and personality (everything that makes who we are) is a product of the brain. When brain death occurs, the soul dies. (Ezekiel 18:4)

So when a body is killed, the soul is killed?

 

[LightofTruth]

There was a law....”don’t touch that tree or you will die.”

And He didn't mean "spiritually". He meant dead dead. Return to dust dead.

 

[LightofTruth]

So when a body is killed, the soul is killed?

All you have to do is read what it says;

God breathed into the nostrils of man the breath of life and man became a living soul. Therefore, when the breath of life leaves man, he becomes a dead soul.

 

[Deeje]

If the original person is annihilated and gone (i.e. nothing remains) then the resurrected person cannot BE the original.
The original was annihilated and no longer exists.
Good may re-create the original person to be exactly the same as the original, but they are not the original person.

Picture it....you wake up from the sleep of death and you feel amazing. You look in the mirror and see a healthy version of yourself, recognisable by you and all who knew you. You would not be restored with a body ravaged by cancer or damaged in an accident.....the body given you might be new, but the “person” inside is yourself.....the unique person that you know yourself to be....why are you so hung up on being the original person. Once you die, all that remains of you is a dead soul. When you awaken from death, will you care that you have a new body or will you gratefully rejoice? I know how I would feel.....

You say that the resurrected second person created by God is NOT a duplicate of the first that died.

Since the definition of “duplicate” is :

1) something that is “exactly like something else”

2) one of two or more identical things

3) to make or be an exact copy of

If you maintain that the second person is NOT a duplicate of the original person, then the second person is NOT exactly like the first; they are NOT identical or they are NOT an exact copy of the first one.
If the second person is NOT a duplicate or identical to the person who died, then other than a difference in body, how is the second, resurrected person different from the original in Jehovahs Witness Theology?

Like I mentioned before...identically twins, triplets etc, are souls in their own right, different sometimes like chalk and cheese. They were meant to be one person, but the fertilized egg split into two or three, sometimes even four or five......all are individuals, physical duplicates but usually different personalities.

So...are these clones? Or are they just individual people with the same DNA?

 

[Brian2]

If God can create a new body and reinstall all the memories and personality traits that identify that individual to themselves and others, it is not a “duplicate” like a clone. Even identical twins are not the same in personality. This is the same person in a new body. That is what resurrection is.....it is bringing back the same person to their earthly mortal life to reconnect with loved ones.

If God created a new body and installed all the memories and personality traits that identify you to you, and if He did that now, do you think there would be two Deejes or would the other one not be you?

 

[Brian2]

All you have to do is read what it says;

God breathed into the nostrils of man the breath of life and man became a living soul. Therefore, when the breath of life leaves man, he becomes a dead soul.

The breathe of life is a life force in JW theology, it is not just breathing air into the nostrils. So it could be said that the breathe of life is spirit or a spirit. Would that be true?