Jesus a magician?

[Brickjectivity]

But, then, a question arises "why would these people lie?" Answer is irrelevant.

I don't see how that is irrelevant. Money and power attract people, some more than others.

But what we do see from here is that there are people in the world that will make things up and claim it to be truth.

There are people who will kiss you on the lips while cutting you in the gut.

Because ALL religions are mutually exclusive.

That is not necessarily true, but leaders are often mutually exclusive and will pit their followers against another group. You can have two nearly identical religious groups that for no transparent reason are bitterly opposed.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Take the cult, Heaven's Gate, for example. The cult leader very innocent , yet, a phony.

They had a leader. The leader had a position of honor. People listened to him, so he kept it going as long as he could.

Here's a theory: Ironically some of the most effective leaders have suicidal tendencies, probably because many have no meaningful internal emotional lives and are seeking fulfilment through leadership. As long as they can't achieve perfect control they're ok, because they don't have the perfect illusion of control, but when they have perfect control yet still have no internal fulfilment they start killing themselves and their followers. Apparently that is when their insanity can no longer hide behind all their smooth talking.

 

[Byjayfzv]

I don't see how that is irrelevant. Money and power attract people, some more than others.

My point was that those people would be no different than Jesus. That if we say those people are phony when they seem to be innocent, then there is no reason to assume that Jesus is not phony.

 

[Byjayfzv]

They had a leader. The leader had a position of honor. People listened to him, so he kept it going as long as he could.

Here's a theory: Ironically some of the most effective leaders have suicidal tendencies, probably because many have no meaningful internal emotional lives and are seeking fulfilment through leadership. As long as they can't achieve perfect control they're ok, because they don't have the perfect illusion of control, but when they have perfect control yet still have no internal fulfilment they start killing themselves and their followers. Apparently that is when their insanity can no longer hide behind all their smooth talking.

But again, why would Jesus be any different?????

 

[jonathan180iq]

"And then "POOF" no more coins"

 

[Brickjectivity]

My point was that those people would be no different than Jesus. That if we say those people are phony when they seem to be innocent, then there is no reason to assume that Jesus is not phony.

Thanks. Ok, but if that is your point then what is your point beyond that?

Your religion says Christian, so that means you have a Christian background like I do. Of course its entirely possible that nothing is as it seems. Jesus could have been an eggregore of all the Jewish males killed by the Romans. He could have been just some wandering rabbi. He could have been an invention by Roman word smiths. He could be an entity reconstructed by the Romans from the paintings of an extinct race of early Christians who were all killed off by the same Romans. I would not put it beyond the Romans to do that, kill them all off and then try to recreate them as a way of saying sorry. He could be a symbolic representation of the tower of babel. (not likely) There are many strange possibilities.

 

[Byjayfzv]

Thanks. Ok, but if that is your point then what is your point beyond that?

Your religion says Christian, so that means you have a Christian background like I do. Of course its entirely possible that nothing is as it seems. Jesus could have been an eggregore of all the Jewish males killed by the Romans. He could have been just some wandering rabbi. He could have been an invention by Roman word smiths. He could be an entity reconstructed by the Romans from the paintings of an extinct race of early Christians who were all killed off by the same Romans. I would not put it beyond the Romans to do that, kill them all off and then try to recreate them as a way of saying sorry. He could be a symbolic representation of the tower of babel. (not likely) There are many strange possibilities.

Well there goes Christianity. Going to have to find another religion

 

[jonathan180iq]

Well there goes Christianity. Going to have to change my religion in my profile

You guys could always just make a new denomination - then it would be legit again.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Well there goes Christianity. Going to have to change my religion in my profile

A Christianity that consists of beliefs is truly groundless, yes. So what happens now? Its a bit of a shocker. Are you going to be ok?

 

[Byjayfzv]

A Christianity that consists of beliefs is truly groundless, yes. So what happens now? Its a bit of a shocker. Are you going to be ok?

I'm confused

 

[Brickjectivity]

I'm confused

Sorry I was not trying to confuse the issue, just getting an idea of where you were coming from. There are lots of reasons people decide Jesus could be phony. Contrary to what many religion peddlers claim there is a huge gap between Christian beliefs and being Christian. For example "Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world." (James 1:27)

<--If you examine literally that quote in James it points out that religion is not about beliefs. I know lots of people claim its about beliefs and argue the importance of having the correct beliefs, but it actually isn't. The people who make religions decent and useful are the ones who help other people. The people who make religions uncomfortable, unstable and useless are the ones who constantly focus on beliefs. The people who make religion divisive are also people who focus upon beliefs and having the correct beliefs. It has always been that way.

 

[AlphaAlex115]

Jesus never existed wheres ur proof

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

But with this "element of trust" you mentioned one can trust any religion that seems somewhat appealing to them. As long as the leader is somewhat persuasive and charismatic and has some tricks up his sleeve..

There is a difference, and that is the historical case for the resurrection. If the resurrection really did happen that puts Christianity in a position unlike other religions. You can question whether it was a magician or not, but something supernatural happening has a strong case. The Apostles were convinced they witnessed the risen Jesus, the same Jesus who was nailed to a cross and died. Their lives were transformed and they were willing to die for the Gospel as a result of it. What else has the same explanatory power than the resurrection in order to explain this? Would the Apostles lie if they were willing to die for it? Was it a hallucination that occurred to 11 men at the same time? The resurrection itself is the case which best fits what actually took place, and no other religion can bring forward such claims. I would encourage you to read the Gospels again, particularly the Gospel of John, for the Scriptures reveal God's glory, and consider the historical case for the resurrection.

 

[Baladas]

If he performed miracles, then he could very well be considered a magician.
It is extremely hard to say, historically, exactly who he was or what he did.
I tend to think that he was a historical person, but there are some who are convinced he was not.

 

[roger1440]

Is it possible to read this online ?

You just did, LOL

 

[Desert Snake]

Even if Jesus Christ existed and actually performed extraordinary "miracles", how do we know he didn't use magic to perform what he did.
In the bible, in the book of exodus, chapter 23 it says that "a sorcerer shall be put to death". The bible would not say to put a sorcerer to death if sorcery did not exist. Once we know it exists, please explain how can we trust Jesus and his miracles?

We can't. The next question seems to be, how does this affect your faith?

 

[Byjayfzv]

We can't. The next question seems to be, how does this affect your faith?

Yep

 

[Pastek]

You just did, LOL

It was a resumé.

 

[Tumah]

It was a resumé.

If you'd like, I can type it for you with the translation.

 

[Pastek]

That would be very kind of you.